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March 16, 2006
Secrets of Pronoia
A breath of fresh air for those who refuse to bow to paranoia, from the pen of Rob Brezsny.
HOW THE WORLD IS CONSPIRING TO SHOWER YOU WITH BLESSINGS.
GLORY IN THE HIGHEST
Thousands of things go right for you every day, beginning the
moment you wake up. Th rough some magic you don’t fully
understand, you’re still breathing and your heart is beating,
even though you’ve been unconscious for many hours. The
air is a mix of gases that’s just right for your body’s needs, as
it was before you fell asleep.
You can see! Light of many colors fl oods into your eyes,
registered by nerves that took God or evolution or some other
process millions of years to perfect. Th e gift of these vivid hues
comes to you courtesy of an unimaginably immense globe of
fi re, the sun, which continually detonates nuclear reactions
in order to convert its body into light and heat and energy for
your personal use.
On this day, like almost every other, you have awoken inside a temperature-controlled shelter. You have a home!
Your bed and pillow are soft, and you’re covered by comfortable
blankets. The electricity is turned on, as usual. Somehow,
in ways you’re barely aware of, a massive power plant at an
unknown distance from your home is transforming fuel into
currents of electricity that reach you through mostly hidden
conduits in the exact amounts you need, and all you have to
do to control the flow is flick small switches with your fingers.
You can walk! Your legs work wonderfully well. Your heart
circulates your blood all the way down to replenish the energy
of the muscles in your feet and calves and thighs, and when
the blood is depleted, it finds its way back to your heart to be
refreshed. This blessing recurs over and over again without
stopping, every minute of your life.
Your home is perhaps not a million-dollar showplace,
but it’s sturdy and gigantic compared to the typical domicile
in every culture that has preceded you. The floors aren’t
crumbling, and the walls and ceilings are holding up well, too.
Doors open and close without trouble, and so do the windows.
What skillful geniuses built this sanctuary for you? How and
where did they learn their craft?
In your bathroom, the toilet is functioning perfectly, as
are several other convenient devices. You have at your disposal
soaps, creams, razors, clippers, tooth-cleaning accessories — a
host of products that enhance your hygiene and appearance.
You trust that unidentified scientists somewhere have tested
them to be sure they’re safe for you to use.
Amazingly, the water you need so much of comes out of
your faucets in an even flow, at the volume you want, and either
cold or hot as you desire. It’s pure and clean; you’re confident
no parasites are lurking in it. Someone somewhere is making
sure these boons will continue to arrive for you without
interruption for as long as you require them.
In your closet are many clothes you like to wear. Who
gathered the materials to make the fabrics they’re made of?
Who imbued them with colors, and how did they do it? Who
sewed them for you?
In your kitchen, appetizing food in secure packaging is
waiting for you. Many people you’ve never met worked hard
to grow it, process it, and get it to the store where you bought
it. The bounty of tasty nourishment you have to choose from
is unprecedented in the history of the world.
Your many appliances are working flawlessly. Despite the
fact that they run on electricity, which could kill you instantly
if you touched it directly, you feel no fear. Why? Your faith
in the people who invented, designed, and produced these
machines is impressive.
It’s as if there were a benevolent conspiracy of unknown
people who are tirelessly creating hundreds of useful things
you like and need.
There’s more. By some improbable series of coincidences or long-term divine plan, language has come into existence.
Millions of people have collaborated for many centuries to
cultivate a system for communication that you understand
well. Speaking and reading give you great pleasure and a tremendous
sense of power.
Do you want to go someplace that’s at a distance? You can
choose from a number of ways to get there. Whatever mode
of transportation you pick — car, plane, bus, train, subway,
ship, helicopter, or bike — you have confidence that it will
work efficiently. Multitudes of people who are now dead devoted
themselves to perfecting these machines. Multitudes
who are still alive devote themselves to ensuring that these
benefits keep serving you.
Let’s say it’s now 9:30 A.M. You’ve been awake for two
hours, and a hundred things have already gone right for you.
If three of those hundred things had not gone right — your
toaster was broken, the hot water wasn’t hot enough, there
was a stain on the pants you wanted to wear — you might feel
that the universe was against you, that your luck was bad, that
nothing was going right. And yet the vast majority of things
still would be working with breathtaking efficiency and consistency.
You would clearly be deluded to imagine that life is
primarily an ordeal.
THE EXPERIMENT
DEFINITION: Pronoia is the antidote for paranoia. It’s the
understanding that the universe is fundamentally friendly. It’s
a means of training your senses and intellect so that you’re
able to perceive the fact that life always gives you exactly what
you need, exactly when you need it.
HYPOTHESES: Evil is boring. Cynicism is idiotic. Fear is
a bad habit. Despair is lazy. Joy is fascinating. Love is an act
of heroic genius. Pleasure is our birthright.
PROCEDURE: Act as if the universe is a prodigious miracle
created for your amusement and illumination. Assume that
secret helpers are working behind the scenes to assist you
in turning into the gorgeous masterpiece you were born to
be. Join the conspiracy to shower all of creation with blessings.
DISCLAIMER: This material may be too intense and controversial
for some readers. It contains graphic scenes of peace,
love, joy, passion, reverence, splendor, and understanding.
You should therefore proceed with caution if you are a jaded
hipster who is suspicious of feeling healthy and happy. Ask
yourself: “Am I ready to stop equating cynicism with insight?
Do I dare take the risk that exposing myself to uplifting entertainment
might dull my intelligence?” If you doubt your
ability to handle relaxing breakthroughs, you should stop reading now.
EVIL IS BORING
When an old tree in the rain forest dies and topples over, it
takes a long time to decompose. As it does, it becomes host to
new saplings that use the decaying log for nourishment.
Picture yourself sitting in the forest gazing upon this scene.
How would you describe it? Would you dwell on the putrefaction
of the fallen tree while ignoring the fresh life sprouting
out of it? If you did, you’d be imitating the perspective of many
modern storytellers, especially the journalists and novelists
and fi lmmakers and producers of TV dramas. Th ey devoutly
believe that tales of affl iction and mayhem and corruption and
tragedy are inherently more interesting than tales of triumph
and liberation and pleasure and ingenuity. Using the machinery
of the media and entertainment industries, they relentlessly
propagate this dogma. It’s not suffi ciently profound or wellthought-
out to be called “nihilism.” “Pop nihilism” is a more
accurate term. Th e mass audience is the victim of this inane
ugliness, brainwashed by a multi-billion-dollar propaganda
machine that makes the Nazis’ Ministry for Public Enlightenment
and Propaganda look like a child’s backyard puppet
show.
At the Beauty and Truth Laboratory, we believe that stories
about the rot are not inherently more captivating than stories
about the splendor. On the contrary, given how predictable
and omnipresent the former have become, they are actually
quite dull. Obsessing on evil is boring. Rousing fear is a hackneyed
shtick. Wallowing in despair is a bad habit. Indulging
in cynicism is akin to committing a copycat crime.
How did it come to be that the news is reported solely by
journalists? There are so many other kinds of events besides
the narrow band favored by that highly specialized brand of
storytellers. Indeed, there are many phenomena that literally
cannot be perceived by journalists. Th eir training, their
temperament, and their ambitions make vast areas of human
experience invisible to them.
“Ninety-six percent of the cosmos puzzles astronomers,”
read a headline on CNN’s website: proof that at least some of
our culture’s equivalent of high priests — the scientists — are
humble enough to acknowledge that the universe is made up
mostly of stuff they can’t even detect, let alone study.
If only the journalists were equally modest. Since they’re
not, we’ll say it: Th e majority of everything that happens on
this planet escapes their notice.
FEAR OF BEAUTY
The Italian city of Florence harbors the richest trove of art
treasures in the world. Its many museums are hot spots for
outbreaks of a rare psychological disorder. Foreign tourists
sometimes experience breakdowns while standing in the presence
of the tremendous beauty, and are rushed to the psychiatric
ward of Florence’s Santa Maria Nuova Hospital.
“Many visitors panic before a Raphael painting,” reports
Reuters. “Others collapse at the feet of Michelangelo’s statue
of David.”
Psychiatrists have named this pathology the Stendahl
Syndrome, after the French novelist who wrote about his
emotional breakdown during a visit to the city’s art collection
in 187.
As you embark on your explorations of pronoia, you
should protect yourself against this risk. Proceed cautiously
as you expose yourself to the splendor that has been invisible
or unavailable to you all these years.
BURN, BABY, BURN
Try this meditation: Imagine that you are both the wood and
the fi re that consumes the wood. When you focus your awareness
on the part of you that is the wood, you hurt; it’s painful
to feel your sense of solidity disintegrating. But as you shift
your attention to the part of you that is the fi re, you exult in
the wild joy of liberation and power.
It may be tempting to visualize yourself more as the fi re
than as the wood. But if you’d like to understand pronoia in its
fullness, you’ve got to be both wood and fi re simultaneously.
YOUR AWAKENING TREE
Many people alive today think that our civilization is in a dark
age and on the verge of collapse. In her book
For the Time Being,
Annie Dillard points out that such beliefs have been common
throughout history. Around 300
B.C. Hindus were convinced
they lived in a “degenerate and unfortunate time” known as the
Kali Yuga — the lowest point in the great cosmic cycle. In 426
A.D. the Christian writer Augustine mourned that the world
was in its last days. In the early 800s the renowned Hasidic
master Rabbi Nachman grieved for the world’s “widespread
atheism and immorality.”
Dillard concludes, “It is a weakening and discoloring idea
that rustic people knew God personally once upon a time
but that it is too late for us. Th ere never was a more holy age
than ours, and never a less. Th ere is no whit less enlightenment
under the tree on your street than there was under the
Buddha’s bo tree.”
Go sit under that tree. The time for your awakening is at
hand.
How beautiful. Why is it so hard for us to be happy and yet so easy to be unhappy?
What is it in our nature that draws us so easily to find conspiracy, evil and hate in our daily lives. We flock to horror movies to see bodies sawed, stabbed and murdered.
But so inexplicitely hard to see the beauty and love that constantly surrounds us.
I just wonder there must be some reason why we were hardwired that way, or is it that our "id" is still the one in control.
If we find one thought during each day to express our gratitude for all the joy that is ours for the taking a "miracle" or "magic" truly happens.
thank you upwinger and all on Future Hi for giving us hope
Posted by: Connie at March 17, 2006 05:52 AMTry http://www.15minutemiracle.com/ if you would like to try a practical exercise which will induce pronoia.
Posted by: Dan at March 17, 2006 06:18 AMDan -- are you serious? It looks like one of those self-help rip-offs ... but then again, in saying that I'm manifesting paranoia, so ... Let us know if you are serios about that or not, if you please.
the ever Pronoiac Upwinger
Posted by: Upwinger at March 17, 2006 07:04 AMYeah, I know, it makes me cringe too. The exercise works though.
Posted by: Dan at March 17, 2006 07:36 AMAnyway to try it ... for free ...?! ;)
--"cheapskate" Upwinger
Posted by: Upwinger at March 17, 2006 07:39 AMYeah, just print lots of copies of this template and fill it out every day.
http://tribes.tribe.net/288dcf4c-cd20-46f9-85e6-04ac868e58b5/thread/d39b1753-b60a-49cd-a75d-21c84518b9bd
Now you know why it's called the 15 minute miracle!
The book is ~150 pages but that is the basis of it.
Posted by: Dan at March 17, 2006 08:59 AMwhat i think , is that we are musicians , constantly learning how to use the instrument , how to play "with" others , and learning how to evolve the music itself , all at the same time ... when a bunch of kids pick up a few instruments and try them for the first time , it is a horrible sound , but slowly , after a while , little by little , they start to create beautiful music , some go on to be "stars" and produce this music for all the world to see ... and such is the evolution of consciousness ... some of us will be supernova stars ... some of us will be its audience , and still others will be critics ... the song remains the same ... maybe we all just get better "sound systems" to hear it ...
Posted by: jiva at March 17, 2006 09:24 AMAll these wonderful miracles, atleast the ones outside of evolution, occur because YOU HAVE MONEY.
I didnt want to write anything when I first read this last night, and I certaintly did not want to be the first to post a reply.
Upon first reading it, I didnt know whether to laugh in disbeleif, or actually cry.
"In your kitchen, appetizing food in secure packaging is
waiting for you. Many people you’ve never met worked hard
to grow it, process it, and get it to the store where you bought
it. The bounty of tasty nourishment you have to choose from
is unprecedented in the history of the world."
This is sickening, you know what I think of when I open packets of food? I think 'This is what life is about, this sterile, manufactured, mass produced society, im eating mass produced food I dont even particularly need, and a couple of hundred people are losing their lives, THEY ARE FUCKING DYING, every minute, of starvation', I think honestly of all the many thousands of people who at that very moment are breathing their last and dying, as I put my toast in my toaster, by the time I'm stirring my coffee, 20 minutes after waking up, im already staring God in the eye in brutal anger, and reavowing to myself that somehow, someway, from the depths of the chains of the life I have, I will find someway somehow to make a lasting change to all those people who this world shits on.
And you know what? I come here and I read this? Is this a joke?
"It’s as if there were a benevolent conspiracy of unknown
people who are tirelessly creating hundreds of useful things
you like and need."
Yeah, because they want your money, and at the expense of all kind of morality, not to mention our own fucking ecology, and the lives of others.
If this is the kind of place FutureHi is becoming, a place where you come when you feel blue so you can go back to your miserable, pointless little lives feeling happy, then it is a joke, a disaster, and a DISEASE.
Cure for Paranoia? Become like this guy? Over my dead body, literally. I hope my paranoia lasts till I die, miserable lonely isolated life that I shall have.
Lets be honest here, the more and longer you dwell on making yourself feel happy, the harder and faster and for longer those demons are going to come screaming back at you. You know why? You have been too awake. You have seen too much, each day you wake up into the same life in the same house with the same people doing the same things in the same world is another day closer to the time when you shall die, like everyone else always has done, and you know, deep down inside you, that the future you CAN SEE, is no closer to become a reality, and you have spent more of you finite life devoted to a 'self' that is going to someday no longer be here. And you question yourself, you question everything, like you used to do in the past, only then you were full of hope and dreams for all people and for everything.
And the answers you find, the ones about yourself, they make you feel guilty. You know that your life, once it is over, for all the poetry and all the hopes and all the inspiration, will be only in the timeless expanse of history no different from everyone else that has continued this unjust and unfair and unequal world.
And make no mistake about it. This is why you seek out this kind of absolute nonesense, this kind of absolutely devoid of any kind of understanding, of meaningless crap. Because YOU feel guilty, because YOU feel sad, because YOU are afraid, because YOU need to be told that your life is special, and is a part of something wonderful and glorious. When the truth is and always has been the glory is all around you, and occasionally it was inside you, but you have slowly come to lose touch with that glory, as you descend deeper into the pleasures of your own existance.
If only the suffering that occasionally twinges you with guilt in Africa WAS A DELUSION, if only.
But its not. Thats the point. The only Dellusion here, is the way this guy looks at the world.
And you want to follow his lead?
Be my Guest. I have no companions here.
Take a breathe, a deep breathe.
Feel that air that passes into your lungs? Filling you with life and energy? That is not here for you, it was created and has evolved and changed throughout the entire existance of our Universe. Our Planet had come to depend upon its lifeforms as much as its lifeforms depended upon it for their mutual survival. The air you breath now was the result of the dying gasps of a form of life that altered the composition of the Earths planet of gases, and the lungs and body you breath this air with, the results of billions of years of change, laid out, and according only to, the most basic of basic principles of our Universe.
This air is not here for you to breath! Selfish, ignorant fool!
You are here because everything there ever was has ALLOWED YOU TO BE HERE.
Take your eyes away from the 'self', you wretched, blinded brother of mine, and gaze upon the self of EVERYTHING. There is NO MORE, and there is NO LESS. So look upon it ALL, should you be in any doubt as to the extent of your 'self'.
Behold, ye who require inspiration. Behold the majesty of existance.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/The_sun1.jpg
Look upon 'self'
Put away your self help books, open your eyes, REMOVE FROM YOUR-SELF the words of those people who know not where they are, what they are.
Do not descend, when we have risen so high, do not descend to ignorance and apathy. Their is a Future of life that has not even had its chance to be, begging you with open arms not to abandon them.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 17, 2006 10:56 AMDon't let this forum get you down eventhorizon.
When I look around London I see that most people are miserable. Apparently people take so much prozac here that you can detect it in the water supply. So in general people are the way you want them to be and the ones seeking and finding happiness are the exceptions. If a few escape misery, just let them go and be content that the majority suffer.
Posted by: Dan at March 17, 2006 02:39 PMDoes being miserable make the problems any better?
Nope.
Thanks for the link, Dan. I appreciate it.
You cant be happy in simply being? You must have these 'goods' around you? These thoughts of absolute sanctity and importance and wholeness and greatness and goodness of your own life? These icons and creations of comfort and ease and self satisfaction? It does not matter what other misery their may be, only the fact that you, yourself, individually live in comfort and ease and happiness progress?
There is nothing more important than pushing from your mind all doubt and fear and guilt and negative feelings? Only then can you be a happy, joyous, active and positive influence on the world? There is no other centre to all creation than you? There is nothing more glorious and great and wonderous and poingant and impressive and deserving than your own life?
Time and Space and all that lies inside its majestic boundaries.
I, and the world, would rather see one hundred children smile, than hear you laugh.
I would rather hear the honest, innocent question of a youngster, than all the words written on this site.
You are forgetting.
YOU are forgetting.
I would rather stand once before the Giza pyramids, than live one hundred years of my mundane, Highlands of Scotland Life.
I would rather listen to a single Celtic Song, in the deepest woods of history, than listen to all the music of woodstock and glastonberry.
Why? Like you care.
The mystery and miracle of everything fills my body.
The mystery and miracle of everything fills my veins.
I am here.
I see no special, no singular, no great and amazing core to my existance thus far. Apart from the fact that I am here, witnessing all around me.
I am learning. I am growing. I am party to witness the greatest, most amazing.
I have my own names for it, I pray to my own secret Gods. I have my own avenues of thought.
And so do you.
We share this place.
Yet we dont.
And here cries my voice. Too focused on this uncatcheable whole to be able to articulate in a way that will permeate and grow within your mind, some kind of message of despair, warning, hope, fear, unity, joy.
The world may crash and burn, and I will sit back and watch it. Because. BECAUSE. I am like you.
But, like you. I WISH TO BE FREE.
And maybe I shall, one day, be free. Free to find my answers, free from my burning questions.
What does this mean for me now? Enjoy life in this contrained, short sighted, self indulgent existance? I only have to be, to be forever pulled in the heart of all that is, that is not known, that is felt, that IS known.
My brothers and sisters. What shall you do with your lives?
Does it matter if there is no God if you have stood face to face with the miracle of existance?
Who am I? Who are you? What are we here for? Why?
We are like drops of rain. Forever being a part, forever playing a part, in all that is, all that was, all that ever will be.
And shall we contribute to a glistening lake? Shall we merge and fall and coalesce into a magical pool, calm and beautiful? Or a raging torrent? Eroding away that which enable us to be? Thrashing our way into nothingness?
And what part does your life, your 'self' play in all this?
Does your Joy and Optimism serve to spread joy and optimism among those around you only? Or does it serve to enrage and anger and insult those around the world?
Does your sadness and melancholy serve to spread saddness only amongst those near you? Or does it serve to spread empathy and compassion and understanding around the world?
We are not seperate. Nothing is not bound to every other thing. Time and Space allow change and transformation, they do not seperate.
And you, whoever you may be, what is your focus? Your 'self'? Or everything, past, present and future?
For ultimatly within the heart of every conscious being their lies the toughest choice there ever can be. Where to direct the focus of the eye of the mind. Within the strip of existance between birth and death, upon the life-story of that in which it resides. Or upon the mystery and miracle, grandness and glory of that which enabled it to be.
And ultimatly, for all the gut wrenching, heart peircing, mind numbing, soul ripping atrocities encountered by the self in life, one must look the Devil straight in the eye, set the teeth and grit the jaw in determination, as friends fall and disaster rains, and march on.
There is more at stake than you and I here, there is us. Find your joy within this glorious truth.
Mock not the suffering of others by singing praise to your own lack of suffering, for you have chosen not to sacrifice whilst they had no choice.
Embrace the misery of others, and receive compassion back.
Above all else, should you devote your existance to self, remember that the time of greatest sorrow or greatest freedom, greatest revelation or greatest damnation, of yourself, shall be when it is too late to make amends in this life.
Prepare yourself so that your last moments on this Earth are not a descent into your own personal hell, but a tearful embrace of final answers.
eventhorizon,
You want everyone to be compassionate and caring so that we can build a better world. I agree with you, I really do.
Do you really think that all selfless people are miserable? There are happy egotists, unhappy egotists, happy saints and unhappy saints.
Stop projecting evil on good people.
Posted by: Dan at March 18, 2006 01:52 AMTHE POET AND THE FOOL
By
-Daniel-
©
Though we be apart,
we are but a heartbeat away.
I have come to share a Truth
upon this blessed day.
Beside the Pathway of Life sat the Poet
wallowing in the comfort of self-pity while
bemoaning the uselessness of his work.
And as luck would have it,
along came a fool who saw the sorrow
of the Poet's tears and stopped to give
comfort as only a fool would think to do.
And the Fool greeted the Poet asking of him...
"What troubles your heart my brother?
What has caused you to step off the Pathway of Life
and how can I help you to be upon your way again?"
But the Poet replied...
"You who possess naught but the happiness of a fool,
how could you ever understand the depths of my sorrow?
What words of wisdom could you give to lift me
from my own despair?"
But the Fool only smiled as he spoke...
" 'Tis true...
...I am only a fool,
but even through the lips of a fool
does God speak to those who would listen."
And the Poet lamented...
"I have wasted my life weaving dreams into words,
pretending that these illusive shadows somehow
had the value of work.
In truth, I know not the fruits of honest labour...
Know not the dignity of the carpenter
building the homes that shelter the sons of man;
know not the joy of tending the fields of harvest
that feed the sons of man;
nor do I know the thankfulness of the physician's hands
that heal the sons of man.
Naught but a thief am I,
living in the corners of a dream,
waiting to steal the wings of emotion,
only to chain them within the rhythm of my poems.
Better by far for me to have been born a fool."
But the Fool only smiled as he spoke...
"What makes you think you are not a fool?
Indeed, a bigger fool than I sits before me,
crying over gifts ungiven with no thought of the
precious gifts that are his to give away.
You long for the gifts to give to the sons of man,
but...
...The carpenter's work shall fall to ruin.
The fields of harvest replenish hunger's need
for but a day.
The physician's hand brings only a moment's relief
to the shell that is destined to pass from view...
...While your gifts are forever given
to the Sons of God...
...housing their dreams
feeding their hopes
and healing their spirit.
Your gifts are the Flowers of Life
but daily must you water them with thanks
and feed them with purpose."
And the Poet looked at him in astonishment...
But the Fool only smiled as he spoke...
"None but the wise shall ever understand
the babblings of a fool."
http://www.stanford.edu/~djmiller/me.html
Be a fool today, laugh and be filled with joy. Step out into the day and dream foolish dreams.
Posted by: Connie at March 18, 2006 04:10 AMMore Pronoia madness:
http://deoxy.org/meme/Pronoia
Posted by: Glandmaster at March 18, 2006 05:03 AMThank you for posting that, Connie. Perfect!
Posted by: Upwinger at March 18, 2006 06:48 AMWhy so much new age shit on FutureHi these days?
Why are so many people on here preaching as if they are standing at a pulpit??? I liked this website because it took a different route away from religion. Now it appears to be more of the same bullshit. Get over yourselves.
Posted by: sick_of_this_shit at March 18, 2006 09:25 AMDan.
Do you honestly think the stuff written in this particular post and thread, regarding the 'miracle' of the world created for your amusement and comfort, is anything other than a sickening ode to human introvertion, self absorbtion and denial?
Stop praising and glorying everything that has a 'joyous' bent, like some blinded and skipping and mewling lamb, happily making its way to the truck to take it to springtime slaughter.
'I have a happy life, you are so right Upwinger, thank you for allowing me to rediscover that absolute core of my being, I was in danger of being swallowed up in the oppression and misery of other people.'
"There are happy egotists, unhappy egotists, happy saints and unhappy saints."
You are so right, and quote me where I claimed the contrary.
Hey Dan, repeat after me 'I have a good life, I am a good person, I have a good life, I am a good person' and run along. There is another 6 Billion to get through, and the challange of getting all people to echo that sentiment forever to get busy with, as well as building a sustainable and equal and just society, that is capable of growth and change when required, that is balanced and in tune both with the needs and desires of all people, as well the constraints and rules and laws of nature and existance.
Damn I nearly forgot, there is my lifelong struggle with the philosophy of nature and the questioning of the presence of a Godhead to fit into all this as well.
I know, there is bound to be some kind of medication my doctor can offer me, to take my mind off these questions while I watch 'Queens of Pop' on MTV for the rest of my days.
Look I have a toaster! Can I join your happy club now?
I'm glad you and so many here are happy, I really am, believe me. But it doesnt really matter. What matters is the unequal world, the crushing misery that does go on. What matters is short, short lives, and preventable painful deaths.
Lets all stop doing what we are doing, seeking the answers to pain and misery and preventable deaths in an unequal world, and clap our hands for Dan, because he is happy.
Is everyone else here happy? Yes? No?
Ok FutureHi, lets stop with the enviromental concern, or the spread of information, or the debate on politics and ethics, lets stop with the attempt to formulate ideas to make a lasting impression in as short a time as possible, untill we make sure everyone here is really really happy.
Wow, this place reminds of pre-school.
Maybe this site should be renamed 'Individual Calm' rather than 'FutureHi'
And the first half of the original post is still one of the most rediculous things I have ever read in my entire life.
If only it didnt stand polar, opposite, and entireally contrary to everything I believe in, everything I stand for, and the entire aim and direction of my whole existance.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 18, 2006 11:07 AMLove you too, eventhorizen.
Why dont you write Mr Brezsny and tell him how you feel?
Posted by: Upwinger at March 18, 2006 11:11 AMhttp://live.quizilla.com/user_images/C/Cowman/1042243813_sCabArtbob.jpg
Wobbly Headed Bob is very upset at the fact that he is so much smarter than everyone.They are all so stupid because they actually believe in concepts like love and they believe they are smart. Bob always tells it like it is and this tends to upset people. He is always suprised in the end when the person kills them self and he is alone again. Why?! Why cant he make them see the truth?! I think its because they don't want to know the truth. Everybody is happy being shallow and incompentant.
Posted by: Glandmaster at March 18, 2006 11:11 AMWhy dont you write to Mr Brezny and tell him how you feel? I'm sure it would sit well with both your beleifs to do it that way, rather than spread displeasure and doubt and words of castigation should I speak to him.
Is not the core of your belief the spreading of Joy?
Why then should you ignore the spreading of Joy by not appealing to those who believe in those words to send words of praise to the author? Why should you seek words such as mine that spread doubt and contrary views to his own? If you believe so soundly in the spreading of Joy and Happiness as the core to all being?
I do not wish to argue with you Upwinger. Nor do I wish to speak ill of you, but I believe there is poison in that well of optimism and joy that you posted here.
John 7
7The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
8Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come.
9When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.
10But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
11Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?
12And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.
13Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews.
14Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
15And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
16Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 18, 2006 12:05 PM"But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless.
"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
Luke 13:28
Posted by: Glandmaster at March 18, 2006 12:35 PM"What is the greatest thing you can experiance? It is the hour of the great contempt. The hour in which even your happiness grows loathsome to you, and your reason and your virtue also.
The hour when you say: 'What good is my happiness? It is poverty and dirt and a miserable ease. But my happiness should justify existence itself!'
The hour when you say: 'What good is my reason? Does it long for knowledge as the Lion for its food? It is poverty and dirt and miserable ease!'
The hour when you say: 'What good is my virtue? It has not yet driven me mad! How tired I am of my good and my evil! It is all poverty and dirt and miserable ease!'
The hour when you say: 'What good is my pity? Is not pity the cross upon which he who loves man is nailed? But my pity is no crucifixtion!'
Have you ever spoken thus? Have you ever cried thus? Ah, that I heard you crying thus!
It is not your sin, but your moderation that cries to heaven, your very meannnes in sinning cries to heaven!
Where is the lightening to lick you with its tongue? Where is the madness, with which you should be cleansed?
Behold, I teach you the Superman: he is this lightening, he is this madness!"
Friedrich Nietzsche 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra'
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 18, 2006 01:09 PMShaka, when the walls fell
Posted by: Glandmaster at March 18, 2006 01:21 PM"Tiger got to hunt;
Bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land,
Man got to tell himself he understand.
I wanted all things
To seem to make sense,
So we all could be happy, yes,
Instead of tense.
And I made up lies
So that they all fit nice,
And I made this sad world
A par-a-dise.
Oh, a sleeping drunkard
Up in Central Park,
And a lion-hunter
In the jungle dark,
And a chinese dentist,
And a British queen -
All fit together
In the same machine.
Nice, nice, very nice;
Nice, nice, very nice;
Nice, nice, very nice -
So many different people
In the same device."
-- Kurt V.
"http://live.quizilla.com/user_images/C/Cowman/1042243813_sCabArtbob.jpg
Wobbly Headed Bob is very upset at the fact that he is so much smarter than everyone.They are all so stupid because they actually believe in concepts like love and they believe they are smart. Bob always tells it like it is and this tends to upset people. He is always suprised inthe end when the person kills them self and he is alone again. Why?! Why cant he make them see the truth?! I think its because they don't want to know the truth. Everybody is happy being shallow and incompentant."
""But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless.
"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
Luke 13:28"
"Shaka, when the walls fell"
Your mockery of me is an art form, no doubt honed and perfected over countless forums and hundreds of self worth contests.
Starting at birth with your mother telling you are a little prince, an angel, the greatest thing to have ever appeared. Developed throughout school and adolescence as a way to argue and fight without the fists and strength that so marred your youth.
Produced here as a way to show yourself above and beyond intellectually all who write in any topic. Produced against me as a way to hoepefully attain the admiration and silent gratitude of your peers.
You are an open book with empty pages.
If it were up to me I would put the poem in the post preceeding mine on the front page.
And as for,
"Shaka, when the walls fell"
There comes to my mind, instantly and alone, Sparta.
Sparta, the city legendary for requiring no walls, who warriors are unique, in my knowledge of history, for their dedication, hardship, bravery, glory, legend, and yes their indoctrination and brain-washing, but without a doubt they are the most glorious and legendary of people who ever fought for any cause of any people, except perhaps among the Germanic peoples of the same time.
Quite frankly, what is your point? Do you have the guts to come out and say it?
Do you even have a point?
What 'is' YOUR point?
You mock me, this much I know, but to what ends? The reinforcement of self worth and importance and power, the persuit of individual, private joy? Or something else?
You see Upwinger? You see the kind of cat you let out of the bag here?
By the way, thanks for the re-introduction to the 'Future Sound of London', I have re-discovered the music of my not so distant youth, and have you to thank for it. Small world huh.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 18, 2006 02:34 PMhe he can you say 'projection'? ;)
Darling do wind your neck in - WHB is a comic book character from the excellent Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, I thought it relevant...
The parable of the wedding feast is cautionary tale reminding us that our attitude is the key to our souls, I thought it relevant...
And as for Shaka - well you aint a star trek fan obv! Its a quote from an amazingly acted episode called 'Darmok'. It may mean failure to understand one another but also attending to trifles when more pressing matters exist, I thought it relevant...
Maybe in the future you could www.googleityoumoron.com before unloading more of your insane ramblings?
{banishes with laughter}
Posted by: Glandmaster at March 18, 2006 04:21 PMDarmok and Jalad at Tenagra? I have the mp3 on my PC.
Here have this.
http://tborgax.homepage.dk/audio.html
The Picard Song, obviously.
"The parable of the wedding feast is cautionary tale reminding us that our attitude is the key to our souls, I thought it relevant..."
Using the scales of Anubis, I find the weight of my own soul does not balance with the weight of those as yet unborn.
"Maybe in the future you could www.googleityoumoron.com before unloading more of your insane ramblings?"
In the words of the Cockney Rebels,
"come up and see me, make me smile"
I have posted a critique of the concept of pronoia at this URL - http://togivemeaning.blogspot.com/ - and in short I say that it is a selfish and unpleasant view of the world.
Posted by: Newsisgood at March 19, 2006 06:46 AMWhat is up with you eventhorizon? You just don’t GET IT, that’s obvious. And because you don’t get it, you feel this need to shoot the messenger. If you truly wanted to understand and asked for understanding I am quite sure that readers of Future Hi would more than oblige to explain and help. But it’s becoming obvious that you don’t want to understand only belittle those who are trying to help you understand.
What do you want to talk about? Death, destruction, pain, hate? Can you with your mindset change any of these things? Just look at how it plays out here. And you blame Upwinger for even posting this article? The article, I will agree, seems aims more at Paris Hilton types but the underlying message seems to have totally escaped your understanding. Perhaps the message needs to be explained to you in hard, cold science articles. Then go look up amgydala, a little organ in your brain (please don’t shoot the messenger if I have spelled it wrong). Find out what happens when you click this organ on to happy, happy, joy, find out scientific proof that your life will change and you will change the lives of those around you. It is similar to “a domino effect”. A chain reaction, you stop for petrol, you pay the clerk, you are having a bad day so you treat her badly just because that’s the way you feel, she in turn now feels bad too, and pity the poor next guy who comes in to pay and is mistreated, who is now feeling bad, and on and on and on…………….
What is the opposite of that scenario? Why can’t you see how simple it all is?
Elder's Meditation of the Day March 19
"There's a deep wound in people-that they have been so cut off from the source of their being, their mother, their Earth Mother."
--Francis Story Talbott II (Medicine Story), WAMPANOAG
When we are connected to the Earth Mother, or when we are clear on our purpose, we will feel connected and safe. We will feel love. When we are disconnected from the Earth Mother, or we don't know who we are or why we are, we will feel pain. It will be similar to a little child who has lost its Mother. We will hurt inside - we will be wounded within. If this happens to the whole community, the people will be very sad and lost. It will seem like there is death in the air. When this happens, it is time for ceremony and reconnection to God and Mother Earth. This is the time of prayer.
Great Mystery, today, help me to stay connected to the Earth and to You, my Creator
William James:
The greatest discovery of any generation is that a human being can alter his life by altering his attitude.
Angels fly lightly ……. Old Scottish proverb
And here is what you dont get Connie, that the world isnt some jumbo sized version of where you live.
What did world peace, spiritual unity, joy and love without boundaries achieve in the 60s? An entire generation coming down from those dizzy heights realising that EVEN THEY have done nothing more than play the miserabel charade of the happy life, while EVEN THEY have contributed to a burngeoning and growing and careless and exploitative world.
Bury your head in the sand! Go do it.
Being nice to the 'Petrol Clerk' isnt going to reach around the world is it? All out of that little pantomime that will reach around the world will be the consumed oil, the polluted air, and the exploited people.
BUT AS LONG AS YOU IN YOUR DEVELOPED NATION ARE HAPPY AND WILL DIE WITH A SMILE ON YOUR FACE INSTEAD OF WITHOUT, THEN NOTHING ELSE MATTERS DOES IT?
What dont I get Connie? That if I smile and am nice to those around me that they will be happy untill they watch the news or have a row or whatever?
Or that if I spend 50p this month on an African Child I will save its life?
What dont I get Connie? That in spite of the most comfortable, healthy, well fed, educated, secure and long life, you also demand from others freedom from any kind of guilt that others dont have this? Nay even more you claim your Joy is the only thing worth having, as long as all the rest isnt taken away?
What dont I get? Connie? You have come to think that there is nothing in this life that shouldnt exist for your own comfort and happiness.
And here is the irony, I dont blame you Connie, I just try to tell you that its not fair for ONE to be able live that way, unless ALL can live that way.
I get, than in theory, that in a just and equal and forward looking world, we should bear the hardships of our lives, and be happy and joyous in what we are doing and in what we have. Oh I get it alright, dont you worry. But in an unjust and unequal and self serving world, those of us who have the most, and live the longest and in the most comfort should bear the hardships of our guilt and our participation in the continuation of this status by spreading Joy and Happiness among ourselves alone?
I get that this 'Pronoia' is going to cover up doubt and fear and unhappiness with the focus on the quality of individual lives. Perhaps, where we are as a race right now, with the nations of the world, and the problems we may face, and the power of the internet, and the feelings of hopeless inability to change, and silent thankfulness of not having a sucky death sentance of a live, that this might just be one of the most dangerous ideologies to have emerged from the latter part of the last 100 years.
But I understand, that whilst you drive around using up finite fuels and polluting the atmosphere, whilst you consume goods and food at an astonishing rate in an astonishing quantitym that there is nothing more important to you than the happiness of yourself and those around you.
Believe me Connie, I do get it.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 19, 2006 10:58 AM"And here is the irony, I dont blame you Connie, I just try to tell you that its not fair for ONE to be able live that way, unless ALL can live that way."
I totally agree and THAT is the point! How to bring this about? By being miserable and angry, shaking my fist at the world and God? "Be the change that you want to see in the world." How to accomplish this?
a case in happiness -
Zen and the art of happiness
Stephan Herrera
This article appeared in Ode issue: 29
The tiny Himalayan nation of Bhutan pursues happiness as a political goal. Ode pays a visit to the place that may turn everything we know about economic development on its head.
Every developing country works hard to cultivate an image, a distinct brand awareness, to attract tourists and trading partners. Few have been as successful as Bhutan. Actually, this tiny Himalayan country has somehow managed to create an ethos that defines the country’s state of mind.
Imagine a peaceful kingdom with some of the world’s tallest mountains and most unspoiled forests, which is populated with Buddhists who preach kindness and goodwill toward humankind and nature. Imagine a poor country that has chosen to build its own unique path to modernization, one that does not rely upon conventional tourism and development.
Some of the world’s rarest animals make Bhutan their home, including the snow leopard, Bengal tiger, takin and golden langur. Bhutan is home to 616 species of birds. In the spring, summer and fall, the lowlands are awash with colour: bright red, pink and white and blue poppies are everywhere. Unlike Bhutan’s neighbours in Nepal, Bangladesh, India or China, heavy industry has not scarred the landscape or fouled the air and water. It’s not that there is no industry, it’s just that the industries and production that exist are, for the most part, compatible with the environment and local communities.
Unlike most other developing nations, Bhutan’s King Jigme Singye Wangchuk did not mortgage his country’s political and economic fate over to the World Trade Organization (WTO), the United States, the World Bank or the International Monetary Fund (IMF) in exchange for hard currency and soft promises of help. Instead, Bhutan stitched together a small coalition of bilateral partners like India, Thailand, Japan, Switzerland, Canada, Sweden and Denmark, who all agreed to step in as investors and donors of talent, bridges, telecom equipment, road-building plans and hydro-power technology.
Today the vast majority of Bhutan’s hard currency comes from ecotourism and hydro power-generated electricity. Its economy is one of the fastest growing in Asia. And the political structure is peacefully making the transition from monarchy to a kind of Asian-style democracy—at the king’s behest.
King Wangchuk created a novel development plan three decades ago, early on mandating that his country’s success be judged in part by the degree to which it makes the Bhutanese citizenry happy. Yes, happy. In Bhutan, happiness is a measuring stick by which all aspects of modernization are judged. The King believes that gross national happiness (GNH) is more important than the widely used measure of economic well-being, gross national product (GNP).
http://www.pmhatwater.com/
What a thought - Gross National Happiness (for ALL)
Posted by: Connie at March 19, 2006 11:52 AMSo you are advocaating the acceptance of inequality and the promotion of happiness?
You, and many others here, believe the path towards a better future, is the spreading of words of joy, the spreading of ideas of acceptance of life, and the joy of whats around you?
But what about all those people Connie, all those people who do have really hard lives, have you asked them? Are they willing to 'accept their lot, based upon their place of birth' and instead promote joy and happiness rather than focus on survival?
What about in Bhutan when the numbers of tourists and the greed of individuals that have high places within Bhutans systems hunger not for Spiritual comfort but for material comfort? What happens when tourism and the slow bleeding of greed of individuals into Bhutans systems starts to destroy its natural beauty?
What happens when the USA's economy struggles slightly, and the explosive growth of the Chinese state (Read Platos Republic for the inevitable outcome of growing states) invades the Tibetan Plateau?
What happens when the wisened old Bhutan elder wants to see his daughter live like a princess, or his son study at the greatest halls of learning in the known world? He should give thanks that they financially have no option but to be farmers and farmers wives? He should fill his and his families lives with the Joy of being, and forget about the fact that their place of birth has denied them access to so many intellectual and physical joys of living?
And what about all those thousands of people whos lives have ended because they simply did not have any clean water? We should forget them because their nation is a wreck? Because helping these people not to have their only existance on this Earth a brutal struggle and nasty horrible death does not fit into the system of how the world operates?
No more nations. One Earth.
I am not advocaating the acceptance of, and obsession with, sadness nor joy.
Yes I have spent many posts writing about blatantly disheartening and depressing situations, but then I am faced here with this obsessivly joyous-only point of view.
Accept the joy and the misery of things. Accept the miracles of life, and the curses that are some lives.
Above all dont get caught up in either extreme, but seek the balance between the two, the common ground we should all share so we can all, realistically and spiritually and technologically, aim for better futures in every sense for all people.
You say spreading Joy is all that matters.
I say let all people have the same opportunities and be entitled to the same share of life. Then let them decide how they wish to persue their lives, within a code of ethics and morality that guards against the consciounse, decisive infliction of pain on others, or the overconsumption and destruction of the planet that supports us.
You say we should all be happy, I say we should all be fed.
You say I preach misery, I say you preach a mask.
The thing that annoys me, is we all should have it all.
No more Nations. No more races.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 19, 2006 12:43 PMI apologize for how long this is and how much space I take up but important to read all of it.
I truly believe eventhorizon that all of us are Children of Light, and of free will. This is a small portion from the teachings of The Essene's Gospel. Granted you have to have wisdom to understand, but I think you will. The pain and anguish you are feeling means you are filled with compassion for your brothers and sisters.
"And though he sees them not, and hears them not, and touches them not, still is he every moment surrounded by the power of God's angels.
While his eyes and ears are closed by ignorance of the Law and thirst for the pleasures of Satan, he will not see them, nor hear them, nor touch them. But when he fasts and prays to the living God to cast out all the diseases and uncleannesses of Satan, then will his eyes and ears be opened, and he will find peace.
"For not only he suffers who harbors the diseases of Satan within him, but his mother, his father, his wife, his children, his companions, these suffer also, for no man is an island unto himself, and the powers that flow through him, whether they be of the angels or of Satan, truly these powers do unto others for good or for evil.
"After this manner, therefore, pray to your Heavenly Father, when the sun is high at midday: 'Our Father who art in heaven, send to all the Sons of Men your angel of Peace; and send to our body the angel of Life to dwell therein for ever.'
"Then shall the Son of Man seek peace with his own thoughts; that the angel of Wisdom may guide him. For I tell you truly, there is no greater power in heaven and earth than the thoughts of the Son of Man. Though unseen by the eyes of the body, yet each thought has mighty strength, even such strength as can shake the heavens.
"For to no other creature in the kingdom of the Earthly Mother is it given the power of thought, for all beasts that crawl and birds that fly, live not of their own thinking but of the one Law that governs all. Only to the Sons of Men is it given the power of thought, even that thought that can break the bonds of death. Do not think because it cannot be seen, that thought has no power. I tell you truly, the lightning that cleaves the mighty oak, or the quaking that opens up cracks in the earth, these are as the play of children compared with the power of thought. Truly each thought of darkness, whether it be of malice, or anger, or vengeance, these wreak destruction like that of fire sweeping through dry kindling under a windless sky. But man does not see the carnage, nor does he hear the piteous cries of his victims, for he is blind to the world of the spirit.
"But when this power is guided by holy Wisdom, then the thoughts of the Son of Man lead him to the heavenly kingdoms and thus is paradise built on earth; then it is that your thoughts uplift the souls of men, as the cold waters of a rushing stream revive your body in the summer heat.
"When first a fledgling bird tries to fly, his wings cannot support him, and he falls again and again to earth. But he tries again and one day he soars aloft, leaving earth and his nest far behind. So is it with the thoughts of the Sons of Men. The longer he walks with the angels and keeps their Law, so do the stronger his thoughts become in holy Wisdom. And I tell you truly, that day will come when his thoughts will overcome even the kingdom of death and soar to everlasting life in the heavenly kingdoms; for with their thoughts guided by holy Wisdom do the Sons of Men build a bridge of light thereby to reach God.
"After this manner, therefore, pray to your Heavenly Father, when the sun is high at midday: 'Our Father who art in heaven, send to all the Sons of Men your angel of Peace; and send to our thoughts the angel of Power, that we may break the bonds of death.
"Then shall the Son of Man seek peace with his own feelings; that his family may delight in his loving kindness, even his father, his mother, his wife, his children, and his children's children. For the Heavenly Father is a hundred times greater than all fathers by seed and by blood, and the Earthly Mother is a hundred times greater than all mothers by the body, and your true brothers are all those who do the will of your Heavenly Father and of your Earthly Mother, and not your brothers by blood. Even so, shall you see the Heavenly Father in your father by seed, and your Earthly Mother in your mother by the body, for are not these also children of the Heavenly Father and the Earthly Mother? Even so shall you love your brothers by blood as you love all your true brothers who walk with the angels, for are not these also children of the Heavenly Father and the Earthly Mother? I tell you truly, it is easier to love those newly met, than those of our own house, who have known our weaknesses, and heard our words of anger, and seen us in our nakedness, for they know us as we know ourselves, and we are ashamed. Then shall we call on the angel of Love to enter into our feelings, that they be purifiers And all that was before impatience and discord, will turn to harmony and peace, as the parched ground drinks in the gentle rain and becomes green and soft, tender with new life.
"For many and grievous are the sufferings of the Sons of Men when they cleave not to the angel of Love. Truly, a man without love casts a dark shadow on everyone he meets, most of all those with whom he lives; his harsh and angry words fall on his brothers like fetid air rising from a stagnant pool. And he suffers most who speaks them, for the darkness that encloses him invites Satan and his devas.
"But when he calls on the angel of Love, then is the darkness dispersed, and the light of sunshine streams from him, and the colors of the rainbow swirl about his head, and gentle rain falls from his fingers, and he brings peace and strength to all those who draw near to him.
"After this manner, therefore, pray to your Heavenly Father, when the sun is high at midday: 'Our Father who art in heaven, send to all the Sons of Men your angel of Peace; and send to those of our seed and of our blood the angel of Love, that peace and harmony may dwell in our house for ever.'
"Then shall the Son of Man seek peace with other Sons of Men, even with the Pharisees and priests, even with beggars and the homeless, even with kings and governors. For all are Sons of Men, whatever be their station, whatever be their calling, whether their eyes have been opened to see the heavenly kingdoms, or whether they yet walk in darkness and ignorance.
"For the justice of men may reward the undeserving and punish the innocent, but Holy Law is the same for all, whether beggar or king, whether shepherd or priest.
What thoughts would Satan have you think?
Newsisgood -- The most intelligent critique I've read ... but I suggest you actually read the full text of Mr Brezsny's book before you castigate him.
The world will never change by trying to influence the masses as a whole. Its only as we become enlightened one by one, each in our own ways, that the Light will begin to spread. We have to light the candles one by one, or else we'll send the whole place up in flames.
Mr Brezsny did not create the term 'pronoia;' he is just its most recent publicist. The outlook it fosters is just as valid as any other -- not a cure-all for everyone, but a corrective for those who need it most.
Posted by: Upwinger at March 19, 2006 03:25 PMAnd as we stand before ourselves, we will know that our Gods have hidden themselves from us.
Placed upon a world of endless, limitless depth. Of awe inspiring immensity and beauty. Placed within an existance of which has a scale and complexity of which we can never even pretend to claim we know of.
As we stand before ourselves, we will know our Gods have hidden themselves from us, and given us the materials of existance, and the tools of mind, with which to construct our greatest dreams.
And as we stand before ourselves, and as we stand before our Gods, we will know they have blessed and cursed us. For they and they alone have given us life, and they and they alone have given us death.
And as we survey the world around us, we will have as a constant companion the growing truth of death. And as we look around us, and as we drink the majesty of existance, we will know not what the Gods ask of us, only that which they have given us.
And as we behold the immensity and magnificence of all around us, as we look outwards with all our knowledge of everything within us, we will feel the call of the Gods within us, and their mockery upon us. And we shall cry to them, 'what do you want of me', and they shall not answer.
And as we look upon one another, we shall look to their souls and ask 'do you see that which I see? Brother?' And we shall look outwards, upon the never ending horizon of existance, and we shall feel our weakness and insignificance, and we shall feel the fire of everything inside us.
And as we look out upon the world, the world that countless eyes beheld before us, we shall know that it remains, as we know that our light passes.
And as we stand before it, in all its glory and majesty, we shall find within ourselves the simple ache of death and life. We shall stand before ourselves, countless night after countless night, and ask 'what am I to do? What will I do? What is it that I do?' And you shall shout to the heavens, 'Thy Gods, show yourselves, for I say you do not exist!' and they shall remain hidden.
And you shall look out upon this world, for God. And you shall find nothing compareable to your God, and much above and beyond your God.
And you shall say, 'Upon the Hour of Death I find my truth!' And you look yourself in the eye.
And you look out once more, one final time, and you survey the glory before you. The sand blows down the hill, and the trees move in the breeze.
And you look around and witness the toil and struggle of humanity. 'Hah, these fools' you say to you 'Do they not know their answers lie at death? Why toil?'.
And lo it strikes you 'These people do not wish answers at all! These people! ME! Behold! We have DREAMS upon this world!"
And lo it strikes you, we do not wish to be told, but to find out and create for ourselves!
I say to those who starve and die 'it matters not, for you are dead, but I wisheth you were fed.'
And I scream alas, to those who cuts, and dies in the pool of their own misery, 'My brother NO, for I am thee and ye are me, Behold I dream too! Dont kill thyself, you are alive, and this chance only do have you!'
And lo, one despairing night, a bitter truth makes it way into your mind.
Without words not indication, these Gods smile and snigger unto me.
'Behold!' they cry, 'We are gods', they smile and say 'are you?'.
I'm hoping at least some of the people reading this site will try and hear what Upwinger has said in his last comment. Please try.
Upwinger said: 'The world will never change by trying to influence the masses as a whole. Its only as we become enlightened one by one, each in our own ways, that the Light will begin to spread. We have to light the candles one by one, or else we'll send the whole place up in flames.'
I really do believe this to be true. This means taking 100% responsibility for one's self (psyche, mind, emotions, environment, actions etc. Tediously simple and also extremely hard to do. Direct action is the first line of solution. This means there is no-one to blame, which can be confusing, but this allows 100% self-empowerment. If people would just take care of their own 'xxxx' instead of distracting (misdirecting) their energies into worrying about other people's stuff. (What are the neighbours doing now, how are they 'wrong', how can I control the situation?)
All the 'suffering' to be seen is other people's stuff and most often is 'none of our business'. That is not to say that one should not help if asked (though beware of the needy 'victims') or be there for others - no need to be obtuse. But there is a thin line between helping and interfering. A lot of 'helping' that goes on in the world is done from a rescuing point of view - to make the rescuer feel better or noble or clever. It is perceived that someone or some group needs 'rescuing' from their situation and in goes the 'rescuer' (read - interferer/manipulator) to sort out the situation and explain how things must be. This is disempowering for all concerned and a way for the 'rescuer' to ignore their own crap and indulge their own agenda. (I think there might be a big global example of this going on at the moment - hmmm what could that be?) Australian novelist, Patrick White had a 'helping' character called 'The Cheery Soul'. The Cheery Soul knew what was best for everyone else and grimly and unrelentingly went about her tasks 'helping' everyone - much to their annoyance.
Most of the TRULY great benevolent souls of our world and history had their own scene together before they moved onto TRULY charitable actions. The rest of the 'helpers' tend to wander around trying to fix and nanny and infantalise other people and nations in order to make themselves feel better, usually leaving a big mess behind because they didn't really understand things in the first place - understanding was, however, never their intention, no matter how much they would like to believe that. It's just busy work so they can ignore their own stuff.
It is probably best to tidy up your own psyche, mind, emotions, environment, actions etc before you start on other people's. If you are not 100% clear yourself (and who is), then you are not fit to sort out other people's stuff.
If you are sitting around in a room bouncing ideas around in your own head (which many of us are) you are likely to find yourself out-of-balance and stuck. If you find yourself constantly looking for answers to other's issues you probably will find that you need to look turn that attention back to yourself and 'do' as well as 'think'.
Pronoia appears to suggest that your point of power is in your viewpoint. On a purely scientific level it appears to suggest a viewpoint that may elicit a more supportive and productive brain chemistry. I think it is suggesting the 'action of gratitude' will have feedback results and result in life improvements. Yes, maybe only to your own life, but that's one more healthier cell in the global whole.
So, of course, ironically it's none of my business but could people please consider that working on themselves, instead of trying to influence the masses, might be a more powerful option. So rather than pondering starving people in Africa I'm going to go and keep cleaning up my own crap and clutter and stop using this as a distraction (fun though) in the hope that one day I might be clear enough to be useful and help other people, if they need it.
Post by shushil yadav in Forums is very relevant and interesting.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted by: thISIsreaLLyHApPEniNg at March 19, 2006 08:46 PM"So, of course, ironically it's none of my business"
Your right, the world has nothing to do with you.
"but could people please consider that working on themselves, instead of trying to influence the masses, might be a more powerful option."
For that individuals happiness? for spreading happiness around those who in turn influence them and they spend a lot of time thinking about? Absolutely.
"So rather than pondering starving people in Africa I'm going to go and keep cleaning up my own crap and clutter and stop using this as a distraction (fun though)"
I was going to pick apart your entire post after your first sentance. This however grabbed my attention.
You think its fun to die?
Its 225 thousand to 250 thousand kilometres to the moon, which you probably see most nights of your life. Its 8000 or so kilometres to Africa, and what you dont see every night is the hundreds of agonising deaths of people of all ages, deaths that you will never suffer from because of where you born only.
Deaths devoid of morphine, or even a Priest to give you last rites. Deaths devoid of familly, of friends.
Is not the entire aim of your existance to enjoy life and die with your familly around you?
Fun Distraction?
Thinking of these people is a fun distraction.
The death of others in an unjust, unequal world, is a fun distraction to you.
I think your lying.
I think you see images of things like this on TV and in newspapers, and you dismiss them somehow using your own logic, and you never ever think of them again.
Think of how many people have been born after you, that have died before you, that could have been saved by all the excess you see around you.
Imagine the scene, your in McDonalds and you see some 20 stone guy going up to the counter.
'Hoi, banish the burger lard guts, your dollar could feed a paki familly for a lifetime'
You have probably just insulted everyone that can hear you. The twenty stone guy might even be crying, or chasing you.
God knows how many lives you have saved, making people THINK and *shock* perhaps donate to some charity.
But hey, lets spread Joy and Happiness! Lets sort ourselves out!
What does 'reality' have to do with 'self' and 'the world' anymore?
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 19, 2006 10:27 PMThis is the last time I will ever acknowledge your excruiatingly boring existence, Eventhorizon. (Gee no-one else ever says that, or do they? Looks like it always comes to this.) You are a blithering fool who never NEVER never NEVER ever reads any of the posts properly (this one included, I'm sure) but you sure love to react when something touches home. You never directly talk about the thing that has actually upset you but you take something else and twist it so you can have a little (ha!)......lets call it a rant.
I, of course, didn't say it was fun to die. But you know that - you're just being a dick. (Oh by the way, have you actually had a go at dying. I'd Just like to say that you do it by yourself, all alone - so that's why its best to have your own shit together. That's what it was like when I nearly popped off anyway.) I was saying that it was fun to visit Future Hi and chat in Comments as a distraction from dealing with my own xxxxx. But you know that - you're just being a dick. 'Was' being the operative word. It isn't fun anymore because all discussions are thwarted by EventHorizon.
You are an energy-sucking hole that never gives anything back and just takes, takes, takes attention. Just in case you didn't get it before, you are really boring and I don't know why the people here pander to you, and dance around you and enable your mental state. You have already stated that you are not in the greatest shape and I do have compassion for that. But you really need to sort it out mate. No-one else can do it for you. But I don't think giving you lots of attention is really helping you and I don't think not being up-front is really helping you - in fact, I think it's detrimental. It helps you get your fix (which I'm probably providing right now).
Once again thanks for what I have learnt from you. That some people will endlessly waste my time if I choose to let them and that I'm wasting my time by being here (distracting) and should go off and practise what I've preached. Please don't think you've upset me EventHorizon. Not at all - I just can't take the Groundhog Day, nullifying-quality that you bring to debates and discussions. There are lots more interesting things to do than hang out with you.
From what I've seen this is the point where you sook on about how hard it is for you and then everyone (because they're nice people) says, 'Oh, don't go'. Just as long as they're still talking about you or something you said you don't care, do you? I dare you to not do that this time. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't leave - which you will try to co-opt from my words. I'm challenging you sit with the feelings that may come up and make some changes in your life. To grow. You've come to a community which has a lot of people in it who have been through their own difficult time and have a lot of information and techniques for healing that they can, and have, tried to share with you but you're not listening. You are ripping yourself off by not taking advantage of this wealth of knowledge and the little bit of concern that you have managed to elicit from this community. If you can't find the answers in yourself and genuinely want some help - then I'm sure it will be there. If the answer is within you - then maybe it's time to act on it. Just stop being such a succubus. Goodbye and Good Luck.
Posted by: thISIsreaLLyHApPEniNg at March 20, 2006 12:25 AMInsofar as we delight
in our existence,
God too delights in us.
And when pain, sorrow,
suffering bend us low,
and over-cloud the heart —
so too is God laid low,
for our sorrow obscures Him.
(*Substitute Her or It for Him as you see fit.)
Cross-posted from http://togivemeaning.blogspot.com
Thankyou for your kind comments [I am referring to Upwinger's post above]. I must however, reply with some criticisms of my own:
"The world will never change by trying to influence the masses as a whole."
I would say that the world will only change by trying to influence everybody and everything necessary. Of course you can't influence the masses 'as a whole' because there is no way to address the 'whole'! You can still try to influence a 'mass' of people through one medium, however. So, in summation, influence of all kinds is necessary. Your concentration on 'enlightened one by one, each in our own ways' ignores the fact that many of these separate ways will actually be very similar indeed.
"...just as valid as any other..." - I really cannot accept this. To what extent do you mean 'any other'? Perhaps you mean it in the sense that the outlook that cat sick is God is as valid an outlook, although I imagine not. Maybe you mean that any outlook that reaches the designated goal is valid. This is more possible, but it is still wrong. We are not only trying to make happy people, we are trying to reach some sort of truth, either communally or individually. And this is why all outlooks are not equally valid.
You do not explicitly deal with the problem of selfishness engendered by pronoia, as I argue it. You hide this consideration by praising the attempt to enlighten people 'one by one', in order not to cause a blaze. I do not think it is a valid or sensible way to change individuals by making them think of ourselves, social and political and personal change are not entirely individual processes, dynamics, or experiences. The importance is to think of relatedness between the self and those of others, to attempt to improve the self and those of others as much as possible, without retreating to considering only your own. This retreat is the outcome that I believe will follow on from pronoia (which is excessively centred on one's own happiness and sense of positive conspiracy), and a more positive and helpful outcome would be one that would involve the happiness of others, also.
In short: this system, which asks the individual to find things to enjoy in their own life, is ethnocentric and class-centric. If you are not as privileged as Rob, myself, or yourself, it will not seem such a boon. It is a system which asks you to close out the pain of the world outside and concentrate on what is good for you. If you want to help people, you must also consider what is bad for them.
Posted by: Newsisgood at March 20, 2006 11:31 AMThe only time I ever spoke about anything personally relevant to me, was when one guy came to this site asking how you stay sane, practically asked how I stay sane, in spite of the observation of the world in all its levels, from the fundamental nature of reality, to the individual existances, to the crushing inequality and blind ignorance of human society as a whole, and inspite of all the cries to 'descend into the praise of the joy of self'.
And yes, its true, I am one of the most oft attacked, personally, posters on this site. I also am extremelly critical at times of other people, depending not upon 'their psyche as it appears to me from their words' but the content of the words alone. Unless ofcourse I find myself within one of those unfortunate multiple post personal battles, of which I have had several with you, and if my mind serves me correctly, you had a pop at me, personally, long before I ever formed an opinion about your presence here.
You are here for one reason alone, make no mistake.
Insofar as we delight
in our existence,
God too delights in us.
And when pain, sorrow,
suffering bend us low,
and over-cloud the heart —
so too is God laid low,
for our sorrow obscures Him.
You are here for this. To 'deal' with your consciounse. You are here to learn 'to deal with' your issues and problems, whatever they may be. Probably of a spiritual and polical/social nature.
You rarely write anything that doesnt praise or glory people like Upwingers words to embrace the joy of your own life.
And thats fair enough.
But to criticise me for being needy?
What are your actual words?
"That some people will endlessly waste my time if I choose to let them and that I'm wasting my time by being here (distracting) and should go off and practise what I've preached."
"So rather than pondering starving people in Africa I'm going to go and keep cleaning up my own crap and clutter and stop using this as a distraction (fun though) in the hope that one day I might be clear enough to be useful and help other people, if they need it."
"There are lots more interesting things to do than hang out with you."
Ofcourse there is, I am not going to say things that are designed to help you deal with your guilt. I'm going to preach equality, and im going to condemn the descent into self-worship. Dude I'm probably the guy you LEAST want to be with in the entire world.
"From what I've seen this is the point where you sook on about how hard it is for you and then everyone (because they're nice people) says, 'Oh, don't go'. Just as long as they're still talking about you or something you said you don't care, do you? I dare you to not do that this time. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't leave - which you will try to co-opt from my words. I'm challenging you sit with the feelings that may come up and make some changes in your life. To grow. You've come to a community which has a lot of people in it who have been through their own difficult time and have a lot of information and techniques for healing that they can, and have, tried to share with you but you're not listening."
Well no, its not particularly hard for me. Infact, apart from the torment of a mind that will not cease to gaze upon the falsity and anguish of 6 Billion lives, or upon the immensity of space and time, my life is relativly easy and comfortable.
Buts lets be under no illusions here. Many numbers of FutureHi readers wish to me leave, and one or two have asked me to stay, and I have stayed for a couple of weeks, and I have written volumous numbers of posts.
And each and EVERY ONE of these, is absolutely central to the core of FutureHi (The core outside of individual and self healing) and that is THE FUTURE and the fate of our race, and the chains upon every and all existance.
And what do you bring? I care not for me, for my 'impression' made upon this site, I care not if I am viewed as some kind of psychotic loser, or some kind of struggling visionary, or neither, or whatever. I care not for how people see me, nor do I care much for 'healing'.
But this pleasant little side track has gone on long enough. Your little pop at me, I guess stems from the fact that you are unable to form a coherent agruement in favour for your point of view and against mine.
Your point of view (If I may presume to be self centred as to bring this BACK ON TOPIC) is that persuit and ebrace of the Joy of your own individual life not only serves to spread Joy around those who you interact with, but also seems to be the only way in which you as an individual can make a positive influence upon the world, towards our greatest dreams.
And yes, believe me, It DOES have its good points, its not altogether a completely ludicrious point of view to have. (wow im being nice to you, FutureHi must be catching).
My point of view : That the descent into the joy of individual existance can serve make the overwhelming pull of apathy in the developed world, and introvertion into national issues, overwhelming. That the descent into joy alone does not take into account that it is not possible to trully know the extent of ones actions upon another individual, for either ill or good, regardless of the primary influence, and that sometimes, occasionally, and realistically, a 'short, sharp shock' can serve far greater purpose in a much smaller timeframe than any amount of love and compassion.
Im not saying you should not be happy, I'm saying that although the initial reaction to words such as Upwingers, and to ideas such as Pronoia, is 'OMG thats beautifully amazingly true and great, we should all be happy' that invariably its never that simple, that your actions in spite of you desire to spread joy may still remain somewhat oblivious and destructive, and that if everyone, ultimatly, focuses upon themselves and their immediate surroundings, NO ONE EVER ANYWHERE will be looking, or understanding their influence upon, that which is not near.
By all means ignore me and never listen to my personal cries for attention and help, thats because, and you know it, sometimes I take this dreamy eyed philosophies and actually make sense out of arguements that are relevant to reality.
Yes, the reality you fear and wish to hide from.
The reality of things, beyond and above, both mine and your sphere of initial influence.
And lets return, only breifly, to a lesson of history.
Had this philosophy been rampant in Germany in the 1930's there might have been no World War II.
Had this philosophy been rampant in the USA, UK, or EVEN JAPAN, there might be no 'free' world.
Newsisgood --
Again, I must ask: Have you read the whole book? Or just the excerpt I posted at Future Hi? Because all these issues DO get addressed in Brezsny's full text. I just posted a teaser to get people interested.
Trying to change the masses has resulted in two world wars, and the current potential for a third. In my experience, it doesnt seem likely that a popular movement will ever have a future-forward positive effect on the masses. Its my firmly rooted stance that everyone needs first to tap their own Divinity, and once that is done, turn to assist their neighbors in whatever way necessary that they may also bring to birth the godling within. It just seems to me that history reveals that all mass movements either begin corrupt, or end corrupt.
I apologize for not being as clear about what I meant by "as valid as any other." As many faiths, so many paths -- to an ultimate Goal. All roads have the capability of leading the wanderers and the seekers to the Temple; the quickest routes are preferable, yes, but its hard to steer those who refuse to be led. I did not mean it as flippant as it came out. Again, my apologies.
Posted by: Upwinger at March 20, 2006 05:13 PM"Trying to change the masses has resulted in two world wars,"
That statement is so blatantly wrong, and self serving its actually scary.
"and the current potential for a third."
Oh so now what iv been yelling about for the last 3-4 topics does actually matter now, but because it serves highlight one of your points.
"it doesnt seem likely that a popular movement will ever have a future-forward positive effect on the masses."
Athens circa 600 BC or so, and the first implimentation of a form of state government known as... Democracy.
"It just seems to me that history reveals that all mass movements either begin corrupt, or end corrupt."
Hmm gee, has it ever occured to you that this race has never actually tried SHARING?
"All roads have the capability of leading the wanderers and the seekers to the Temple; the quickest routes are preferable, yes, but its hard to steer those who refuse to be led."
And sometimes, man must leave the chorus of joyous singing and the praise and the temple behind him, and toil the fields. That is if he desires to live.
You have the right destination in mind Upwinger, no one can deny you this, but I will say it again to you as I have said it before to you, you are pointing us down all the wrong roads.
Worshiping the divinity of oneself, basking in the joy of your own existance, as the principle which should lie behind all of life, is the surest way to deny the suffering and troubles of others, and dance onwards in the blissful rejection of everything 'you dont like'.
You can mask pain and suffering and guilt and fear Upwinger, or you can cure it, or you can accept it. Out of those three options it is the mask that worries me the most.
If people are happy and joyous in what they have, what is going to motivate them to seek change? You do not preach understanding of the systems of the world, you do not even preach coming to balance with existance in your last few posts, you preach the unrepentant joy and divinity of the self and whats around you, now, and nothing else but the spread of this view.
"Seeking to create a joyous, infinitely expanding future; Future Hi is an online community exploring the frontiers of higher intelligence, accelerating technology, anthropological exodus, utopian dreams, imagination and logic."
That involves change, you do not see that this point of view is the enemy of change.
But lets not beat around the bush Upwinger, doesnt change in the world in the near future closer to other 'idealistic' dreams may a change in the quality of life for the worse for you and those around you?
Do you really want to see change? Do any of you?
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 20, 2006 06:57 PMI have recently started an intentional community in Los Angeles. A large part of an intentional community is deciding what type of communication is appropriate in group meetings. If conflicts are not managed, then a great deal of anger and frustration can set in and the community can fall apart.
FutureHi is a intentional community in cyberspace. We are here to discuss the future, and at least to explore more positive scenarios and possibilities than we usually hear from the mass media or from other more conventional websites.
It has become clear that Event Horizon is dominating the forum and reducing every post to an absurdly negative black and white.
I'm not saying that his point of view is completely invalid, many people share his negative view of the world. But it is clearly destructive of the intention of this site for him to have free reign to write huge negative comments which basically say the same thing over and over, and reduce the discussion to a least common denominator.
I am particularly saddened to see a discussion of Rob Brenzny's amazing book to be trampled upon in this manner.
Intelligent back and forth discussion yes! But the discussion has been lost under this load of verbiage from someone who doesn't really understand the point of this site.
Therefore I believe it important for this intentional community to have the courage of its convictions and find a way to limit Event Horizons posts in some way.
Perhaps he could have his own special forum where he is free to comment at will. But I encourage the decisionmakers to make some proposals and have a community vote, so that there is a fair method of dealing with people who seem to be steering the site away from its mission.
Basically Event Horizon can be seen as an off-topic poster. Even though he appears to be speaking specifically about a post, really all he's saying over and over is:
Millions in the world are miserable and suffering, and if any of us are positive and hopeful we're deluding ourselves, and we should all be miserable and fight against these injustices: the only true reality is to be depressed and struggle for change.
This is a valid point of view but hearing it hundreds of times over and over in huge posts is boring, and destroys any real discussion of the issues, and therefore has the same effect as off-topic posting.
Conflict resolution is very important in any intentional community. Event Horizon's postings are a serious threat to this community's mission and a community solution needs to be found.
Although I am a huge fan of FutureHi, I will consider leaving the FutureHi community if a solution cannot be found, cause I don't want to waste my valuable time wading through EV's long, dreary and predictable posts.
Rob Brezny's work deserve far better than this.
Eventhorizon,
Dlight has made a call for an examination/termination of your involvement here. I would like to suggest a way of acknowledging and integrating your concerns so that we can return our collective attention to the broader issues at hand. I agree with three of your primary points, partially disagree with another two, totally disagree with one final point that you have made, and will explain why below. In particular, I wholeheartedly agree that
1. Millions in the world are miserable and suffering, and that rampant injustice abounds.
2. We embodied humans can be incredibly fixated on our own needs and happiness — and angst.
3. We must work to overcome points one and two if there is to be any true hope for this world.
These points are valid, and it would seem reasonable that we all acknowledge this so that we don't have to argue over things that are more or less obvious. Likewise you should acknowledge how fixated you have been upon your own angst.
The two points that I partially disagree with are:
1. The descent into the joy of individual existence can serve to make the overwhelming pull of apathy in the developed world, and introversion into national issues, overwhelming.
2. Sometimes, occasionally, and realistically, a 'short, sharp shock' can serve far greater purpose in a much smaller timeframe than any amount of love and compassion.
The first basically says that joy can be a narcotic. The second is basically the old idea of "tough love." Both of these have some degree of truth deriving from the mechanistic aspects of human consciousness. From a stimulus/response viewpoint of the mechanistic neuro-theory, they are both valid points, and should be acknowledged as such by the other people on the list. The caveat, is that human consciousness is not in any way limited to the mechanistic aspects of neurology. In particular, the subjective aspect of human consciousness is not only real, but operates according to principles that are very "counter-intuitive" vis a vis the mechanistic viewpoint — and wherein the emotions of joy and pronoia have a fundamental truth/function that you should acknowledge. And given your participation on this list, it would not be unreasonable for the other people on this list to expect you to be aware of this caveat, and in agreement the basic point.
The entangled subjects at hand all boil down to the question of whether not subjective states are mere epiphenomena of objective material states (as materialists would claim), or ontological primitives that transcend material existence (as the mystics have long claimed). The truth of the matter (so far as I have been able to tell) is that objective and subjective states are ontologically coequal, and causally coequal. A materialist could easily take the line of thoughts that you have expressed, and accuse the promoters of joy and pronoia of magical thinking. However, when we grasp that human subjectivity/emotion has a very real power to physically/causally "alter the past" in accordance with the type of emotion being expressed, we see that the promoters of joy and pronoia are doing something that is critically important that we should pay attention to.
When we combine this basic insight with your own point about that the rampant misery, suffering, and injustice of this world, we get to the nitty gritty of what FutureHi has to address if we are to be successful. In particular, we get to the fact that the human race has never had "geopolitical freewill," during the course of history, and that our here and now "troglodyte leaders" like George Bush do not have a single iota of geopolitical freewill. Yes, George Bush could use his personal freewill to resign his job, but there is an endless line of people who, without fail, would replace him and follow a very similar course. Indeed, the incredible weight of negative/judgmental thinking that is taking place in the world makes this entire situation more or less predestined, via the incredible quantity of harsh, negative, time-reverse, energy being pumped back into the very fabric of history. As a result, the world is filled with political, economic, and religious leaders who are all little more than puppets on the end of very long circular strings. And in this regard, it doesn't matter a whit whether George Bush is controlled by the Illuminati, or is a direct victim of the virulent "group think" that is epidemic on this planet.
Indeed, the reason FutureHi is such a critical endeavor, is because we have a few quanta of true geopolitical freewill that we could nurture and cultivate — and by this means navigate the Eschaton that is fast approaching. In this regard, the basic endeavor of psychedelic futurism is the vehicle, the Internet is the superhighway that has miraculously appeared in our midst, and the joy and pronoia being spoken of are the fuel that's going to get us from the sorry geopolitical state that you are so acutely aware of, to the utopian future where we all want to go/be.
Remember, joy and pronoia are not merely functions of our neuro-chemistry, but deep seated powers that have the ability to continually undermine the work of the selfish and the evil via changes to the very fabric of history. Feeding the vehicle of psychedelic futurism with angst, fear, and paranoia is like putting water in your car's gas tank. On the other hand, if we imbibe the nectar of joy and pronoia, we will be empowered to work a geopolitical miracle that would make the heads of many spin, and unleash tears of joy from many many others.
And this brings up the point that you have made that I fundamentally disagree with — namely the idea that humanity has a long uphill battle in front of it. I totally disagree, we have everything we need to work a geopolitical miracle, and we have four to eight years to do so. And if we don't succeed within that timeframe, the odds are that each and every one of us will die in the chaos that ensues. And for this reason, I have to support Dlight's call for a resolution to this issue, while at the same time encouraging us all to integrate your passion, Eventhorizon, into the work that we are doing here.
Sincerely,
Reverend Tom
Rev,
Off topic, but I disagree with this:
"objective and subjective states are ontologically coequal, and causally coequal."
Surely this is only true from the perspective of an egomaniacal individual or the totality. For the totality there is no distinction between objective and subjective. For anything else there is no such thing as access to an objective state.
From what I understand your statement also conflicts with the scientific method. If there is no separation between objective and subjective in terms of existence or interaction, what is the point of refining the subjective to tend towards the objective? If testing the subjective against the objective is so wrong, how come science has provided us with so much?
I've probably misinterpreted you statement. Please clarify.
Posted by: Dan at March 21, 2006 08:19 AM>> "objective and subjective states are ontologically coequal, and causally coequal."
> Surely this is only true from the perspective of an egomaniacal individual or the totality.
The objective is realm and perspective of the material sciences. The subjective is the realm and perspective of the mystical sciences. They must both be ontological primitives, or one or the two must necessarily be an epiphenomena of the other, and the corresponding perspective necessarily illusory.
I claim that they are both coequal ontological primitives, and that a proper interpretation of wave/particle duality leads to this coequality.
> For the totality there is no distinction between objective and subjective.
The totality sits of the far side of an infinite dimensional regress. For those of us who are not "God" it behooves us to make the distinction, and recognize the symmetries that exist. Indeed, the worst failing of the mystical sciences, is in their failure to fully honor this basic symmetry, and alert us to the fact that we must master both sides of the equation.
> For anything else there is no such thing as access to an objective state.
This I agree with; however, we should note that by symmetry, there is likewise no access to a purely subjective state.
> From what I understand your statement also conflicts with the scientific method.
Again this depends on whether one is talking about the mystical sciences of the east, or the material sciences of the west. These two sciences reconcile in the easily proven fact/reality of time-symmetric causation. What we call the scientific method is going to have to be updated to accomodate this.
> If there is no separation between objective and subjective in terms of existence or interaction, what is the point of refining the subjective to
> tend towards the objective? If testing the subjective against the objective is so wrong, how come science has provided us with so much?
We must indeed refine the subjective toward the objective. I never meant to say or imply otherwise. But by symmetry, we must also refine the objective toward the subjective or we will necessarily find ourselves stuck with the pain, suffering, and injustice that eventhorizon has been railing about. And his basic complaint is quite valid in this regard.
Reverend Tom
In 'Capital of Woes,' a Holiday for Enjoyment
By Omar Fekeiki
Special to The Washington Post
Wednesday, March 22, 2006; A15
BAGHDAD, March 21 -- In the northeast Iraqi town where Salah Mehdi lives, explosions and gunmen keep most people close to home. In the surrounding province, there is only one amusement park -- closed by order of the government. So if he and his family were going to celebrate the first day of spring in true Iraqi style, but with some degree of safety, Mehdi felt he had but one choice: Baghdad.
His family was surprised when Mehdi decided that the only safe place for the holiday was the city he called "the capital of woes." But on Monday, he and his brother packed their families into a car and set off from the town of Khalis for the 50-mile drive to the capital.
Along the way, Mehdi said, he and the families passed checkpoint after checkpoint, some with 100 cars or more waiting to pass through. They saw piles of rubble that Mehdi said three years ago were government buildings and Iraqi army bases. The trip was painfully slow, Mehdi said, but added, "I had to come to Baghdad today."
By Tuesday afternoon, he and his family sat in Rusafa amusement park, one of Baghdad's biggest. On a thin mattress spread on the grass, he, his wife, his brother and his sister-in-law sat around a big tray of rice and meat, watching their children play and run.
"I know the situation in the country is frustrating," said Mehdi, who sells propane in Khalis. "But we don't count how many times we die. It is only one time, and before it we should enjoy."
Iraqis celebrate March 21, the vernal equinox, in a variety of ways. In the Kurdish north, the festival called Norooz, or new day, is a time for traditional dances. In most other parts of Iraq, picnics in the countryside are popular. In Baghdad on Tuesday, people avoided the city's risky streets and headed for fenced and guarded amusement parks.
At Rusafa amusement park, Iraqis could almost forget they were in a city where sectarian violence tops the news every day, with more than 1,000 people killed in the past month. At the entrance, people with wide smiles jostled one another as they waited for guards to search male visitors and their bags. Although holiday gatherings like Tuesday's make easy targets for suicide bombers, people made light of the danger. "At least you die laughing here," one visitor said when a guard searched him.
Couples, hand in hand, slowly made their way to a pond, where they sat and whispered into each other's ears. Children climbed fences, using them as monkey bars.
"I want to go to the merry-go-round," demanded Aya, Mehdi's 5-year-old daughter. "Hurry up, we are losing time," she said, prodding her mother.
"You bring children here once, they don't forget it for a year," Aya's mother, Hanan, said happily, ordering her children to take it easy so they wouldn't hurt themselves.
Ali Karim and Haider Majid, both 21-year-old Kurds, accompanied their girlfriends to the park. They rode the roller coaster, screaming happily for the entire four-minute ride.
"Iraq is not all suffering," Karim said. "We have Norooz, too."
Yet, as the conversation continued, Karim and his Kurdish companions all remembered relatives and friends who were lost to the violence. "We remember them today," Majid said.
When asked how many family members or acquaintances had been killed since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, Karim said he and his friends had stopped counting. "Every day," he said, "there is another loss."
© 2006 The Washington Post Company
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/21/AR2006032101740.html
Yeah, Connie, the resiliance of some humans is amazing.
During Hurricance Katrina I read an interview with an elderly lady. She said, 'I used to worry about losing everything but now I don't have to.' Obviously she is going to have struggles and problems but I just thought that point of view was so brave and optimistic and creative. Don't think I could be so 'up' in those circumstances.
Posted by: ThisIsreaLLyHApPEniNg at March 23, 2006 02:53 PMI think we should cherish what we have, toasters included. We live life for us..everyone is selfish in their own way, If everyone thought of the hungry and poor and lived in misery then what would be the point our life? We live in a house, we are blessed...we did not choose this life, we were brought into it. We are the same as the unfortunate people that have nothing, because they too were born into that life. So you curse god because you have food and others dont, what are you to do about it? Will you go and live your life forever thinking about the unfortunate instead of cherishing what you have? Its very hypocritical. You curse the food you have, the food that people sweat over to create. the food you eat that is processed and packaged are still the fruits of someone else's labour. The house you curse was created by PEOPLE, their blood and sweat...the construction workers who work long hard days to create the house you live in. They do that for MONEY, YES..MONEY...so that they can live their life, so that they can buy their own food, so that they can go back to THEIR house at the end of the day...the house that someone else worked hard to create for THEM. It is a never ending circle, people sweating in factories to help package processed food are doing it only to earn money so they can go to the grocery and BUY the same food that they package...to survive. Life is about survival. Life is hard, we need not make it harder by cursing everything we work hard to have. Cherish your life people, Let people like eventhorizen be miserable.
Posted by: AJ at March 29, 2006 10:59 AMYou've got it, AJ, you've got it! I'm right with ya ....
Posted by: Upwinger at March 29, 2006 11:15 AM"I think we should cherish what we have, toasters included. We live life for us..everyone is selfish in their own way, If everyone thought of the hungry and poor and lived in misery then what would be the point our life? We live in a house, we are blessed...we did not choose this life, we were brought into it. We are the same as the unfortunate people that have nothing, because they too were born into that life. So you curse god because you have food and others dont, what are you to do about it? Will you go and live your life forever thinking about the unfortunate instead of cherishing what you have? Its very hypocritical. You curse the food you have, the food that people sweat over to create. the food you eat that is processed and packaged are still the fruits of someone else's labour. The house you curse was created by PEOPLE, their blood and sweat...the construction workers who work long hard days to create the house you live in. They do that for MONEY, YES..MONEY...so that they can live their life, so that they can buy their own food, so that they can go back to THEIR house at the end of the day...the house that someone else worked hard to create for THEM. It is a never ending circle, people sweating in factories to help package processed food are doing it only to earn money so they can go to the grocery and BUY the same food that they package...to survive. Life is about survival. Life is hard, we need not make it harder by cursing everything we work hard to have. Cherish your life people, Let people like eventhorizen be miserable."
Life is not hard when you fall out with a work mate, or get slated by your boss, or when you have to get up at 7am every morning. Or your car does not start, or the bills are piling up.
Life is hard when people close to you die, when you have a merciless task placed in front of you, success meaning living another day, failure meaning death. That is a hard life.
Many people in the world have jobs that require them to work almost ceaselessly, and some countries have economic systems where a single months average wage is enough for one chicken.
These people do not work to buy the packaged food of robust and strong nations. These people make the clothes you wear in your robust and strong economy, if these people lose their jobs, their children will die.
Many people in the world do not live in regions that have 'economies'. Many people are living on the fringes of deserts, natural disasters, wars, epidemics.
So while you say that blood, sweat and tears went into building the house and growing the food that I eat, we both know that is nonesense. We both know that it was dodgy wiring and poorly joined wooden frames, and lots of salt and chemicals that went into our homes and food, went in not for money to survive upon, but for profit upon which to lounge around and relax upon.
While you say 'you curse god for having a house and food others dont' we both know it is people that get cursed for living in lavish luxury far beyond any real 'need' at the same time as people are gasping their last in some makeshift tent, or even on sun baked ground.
You are right when you say it is a never ending cycle.
In some parts of the world it is a never ending cycle to keep up appearances and pay off credit card bills, to work hard all week and go crazy at the weekend, to bring up a child and give him/her access to the best opportunities in life, invariably pulled into the Nike sneakers or emotional turmoil aspect we all so clearly remember from our early days.
In other parts of the world its a never ending cycle to have a child so your life doesnt end in complete self observed pointlessness and despair. It then becomes a struggle to keep that child alive, a struggle which, compareable to the animal kingdom, tends to end in a high mortality rate for offspring.
So yes, let people like me be unhappy, or more realistically, let people like me continue to view the contents of our lives meaning immeasurably less than the chance to observe and witness life itself, and perhaps even speak or write about what we watch, that may eventually one day play a small part in all the days yet to come once we inevitably leave this plane.
I wish you happiness, no more and no less than the happiness everyone deserves, which is why I make such loud noises whenever I come across people shouting the praises of being born on one side of a set of unbalanced scales.
By all means Cherish your life, but dont become obsessed with it, after all one day you are going to lose it. And any chance of ever being able to affect any kind of real change in the world.
Posted by: eventhorizen at April 5, 2006 03:10 PM