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March 13, 2006
Ralph Metzner on the Collapse of Civilization
"Well, it now appears that I can count myself among the “intelligent and credible people”, who have been saying that the collapse of our global civilization is a distinct possibility. The article [linked] below, from the Guardian, spells out the interlocking scenarios that have led to the collapse of previous, more localized, civilizations. In one respect, though, I have already left the company of the “intelligent and credible”, since I don’t think civilizational collapse is possible — I say it is happening now. Even as we read each other’s e-mail, and drink to the New Year. That deadly duo of monsters — resource depletion and overpopulation -- are killing off vast areas of biosphere. And our leaders (the biggest gangsters), instead of focussing on searching for ways to cooperate and to mitigate the lethal consequences of the collapse, have chosen to apply their technological skills in increasingly violent military actions to support the organized predation of the multinational energy corporations, while skilfully weaving a stupefying hypnotic fog of denial into their subject populations and keeping them in mindless robotic consumerist trance. I also have to depart from my “intelligent and credible” fellow observers in their rather sanguine assessment that the collapse of industrial civilization will just entail the return to a pre-industrial life-style. In other words, like the horse-and-buggy days of colonial America — doesn’t sound too bad. Perhaps this will be the final new social equilibrium, .. but in the meantime, what happens when civilization collapses, as Uncle Karl pointed out, is barbarism. I think we can all agree that the images emerging from the worldwide military prison gulag, and the fact that the possible ethical and legal justification of torture has become a topic of debate and discussion in politics and academics, is one sign of a civilization that is collapsing into barbarism. This barbarism is sometimes (falsely I believe) called the “law of the jungle”: kill or be killed, eat or be eaten. But that notion is not a “law of the jungle” -- it is a false choice, a rigid, fear-based survival program. There are many other, healthier and more productive ways for us to expend our energy and direct our intention, besides killing or being killed, eating or being eaten. What are these ways? We can start by “turning our swords into ploughshares”, demilitarizing society and committing ourselves to the non-violent ways of Gandhi and Martin Luther King, and Jesus of Nazareth. We can sit down and talk: talk about what is really needed for every one, -- all human and non-human beings, inhabiting this planet, or this place where we happen to find ourselves; — and how we can best meet those needs. What a fantastic challenge and beautiful opportunity for our collective creativity and ingenuity, our powers of design and imagination. As far as I can tell, humans don’t really need that much — food, water, shelter, health, safety of course, the basics; the opportunity to raise their children in peace, to engage in meaningful work, to practice their creativity, to pursue their spiritual and religious values — don’t they all flow from basic respect for another’s integrity? The Golden Rule is still the Golden Rule.
I have to report I feel neither gloomy nor doomy. I’ve found that letting go of denial and accepting what is happening, is tremendously liberating.
“To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose..” and this is a time of collapse, and renewal.
So, my friends, be of good cheer, and laugh and make music."
From Non-Prophet
Posted by paul at March 13, 2006 11:33 PMim not shur it will end if fire and brimstone by anymeans but if we dont embrace our natural equalibreum with gaia and eatch other. it wont be pritty
Posted by: corwin at March 14, 2006 12:57 AMWe're out of control and our environment will adjust to a new equilibrium. Probably without us, possibly without anything like us. Our opinions about that will disappear with us. Nobody will cry at our collective funeral or blame us for what we did, so we might as well make the most of what we have got and accept that species become extinct just as individuals die. Even if we have a near-extinction experience and change our course we're still not going to exist forever, but right now we still have life, love and laughter. Enjoy!!!
Posted by: Dan at March 14, 2006 05:05 AMI blame you now. Your particular genotype has had thousands of incarnations in which to wake up to its surroundings, learn and grow, and still as always all you do is say 'We all die!!! Lets Plunder While We Live!!!!'
Make no mistake that human civilisation isnt going to become extinct the same way every other species went extinct. Anything other than complete biological death of the entire Earth will see human beings scurrying and surviving.
And, even if it is only climatilogical, ecological, and humanitarian rape that results in the collapse of the blind and brain dead 'West/Developed/Capitalist/Consumerist/Whateverthefuck' systems and nations that championed your particular meme as their entire philosophy of existance, then your dear Brothers, such as those whom paid these forums a little visit, will be crucifying and burning whats left of YOUR offspring.
So congratulations on justifying participation in megacrime on the fact you will die someday soon. You get one life in which to change the world and make your mark, and if your aim is solely to become a cog in a machine that gaurentees you a reasonably comfortable material life, and give up everything else that BEING HUMAN means, then bravo, you are the worst of the worst, and the embodiement of the TRUE plague of false idol worshippers that are ensuring armageddon and darkness for so many for so long.
What I find even more incredulous, even more repugnant is that you can be so blase about the possible eradication and extinction of the mind that created music, art, and looked up and marvelled at the mysteries of the stars. Do you have any sense whatsoever of things beyond your individual self? Your very life, your ability to laugh, your love, were all given to you, allowed to exist, by this Earth, this Universe, this mighty existance. You owe everything, and are in the greatest debt there can be, to EVERYTHING around you.
Someone in ancient Greece once said 'Perhaps Death is Life's greatest gift'.
Imagine living long enough to witness the most terrible consequences of your actions, and the realisation of all the things I just spoke of. It would break you.
You were granted life, and you squandered it away amusing yourself with the creations, inventions, and social games with other oblivious apes. Then you come here and say 'plah, who cares'.
You would care deeply, if you had half an incling.
I will stop now, this is likely to produce another chorus of yelps begging for my immediate banning and silencing.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 14, 2006 08:20 AMEH,
Again, you seem to be throwing around personal attacks towards posters without much basis. For example, who is being blaise? Who are you referring to... me? I have never been blaise about the crisis our species is facing. If I was blaise, why then would I have spent the last two years and nearly a thousand hours of my personal time to create this site?
My first priority has always been about the continuation of life and intelligent in the universe in the most humane, harmonious and compassionate way possible.
Again, I find myself responding to you, even though I feel there is a 99% chance it will fall on deaf ears. But since you keep coming back, I'm assuming there is a part of you somewhere in there that actually wants to hear what I have to say, otherwise why do you keep coming?
So lets see. You blanketly accuse everyone here of participating in "megacrime". What megacrimes are we committing that you are not? What megacrimes are we committing at all, short of simply existing? We are doing the best we can.
What continues to be odd about your posts is that you shout and preach your thoughts as if we are not in agreement with you.
It's as if you are arguing with yourself - and using us as some kind of reality check on your own despair.
I think you keep coming here, because deep down you know we have something meaningful to say to you, regardless of anything else you say otherwise
Be well,
Paul
Posted by: Paul at March 14, 2006 09:21 AMPaul,
I think I have to accept some of the blame for winding eventhorizon up. I didn't mean it the way he has interpreted it but I see that it can easily be read that way.
eventhorizon,
When I said "make the most of it" I hoped you would interpret it in reference to "life, love and laughter" not ecocide and genocide which aren't my favourite things. I'll accept your rebuke anyway. My actions rarely live up to my ideals or even my words.
I'll try to illustrate my real point with this allegory: You have been diagnosed with something terminal but instead of being miserable you make the most out of what you have got, without being selfish or thoughtless.
Sarva mangalam!
Posted by: Dan at March 14, 2006 09:59 AMPaul I was responding to Dan.
And Dan..
"When I said "make the most of it" I hoped you would interpret it in reference to "life, love and laughter"" Is EXACTLY the comment my entire post was aimed at.
When New Orleans was looted, what was their mentality? Making the most of life generally means shaft other people to get maximum benefit from all situations for yourself. It is this mentality that is the source of all the apathy for problems that are more than a century away. It is this mentality that is the very core of the issues facing our species.
Maybe you are altruistic and devoted to spreading love, but the majority of people who share your principle of maximizing their happiness do not, and instead of declining consumption, pollution, hatred fear and anger as we approach the limits of ourselves and our planet, those things INCREASE as desire to consume and fight over resources for individual satisfaction accelerate.
Living life to the full seems like a very good piece of advice, untill you actually think it THROUGH, and realise its actually the only sure way to guarentee the destruction of our current way of life in the near future.
And Paul, arguing with myself? Perhaps. Many on this site appear to be happy preaching individual bliss as they key to solving every problem, without actually considering a modicom of REAL LIFE. I point out that preaching happiness and kindness and symbiotic relationship with the Earth is going to do nothing in the short term but get you dismissed and ignored by those near you, and become a target for those who directly oppose you, and you say 'shut up EH your not making ME FEEL HAPPY'.
Welcome to the mindset of the oblivious as they destroy our Planet.
The megacrime I was referring to was expunging ones self of all responsibility for the survival and progress of our species, for the suffering and death of our planet, and of the racial, religious and social crimes and wars and intolerance, because you happen to be mortal. This IS what our species does. This IS why China is constructing vast amounts of fossil fuel power plants to fuel its nation, and the nations of the world are not pooling their resources and powers so China doesnt have to do this.
We argue, bitch, fight, rape, plunder, steal and loot, and NOW we hope and pray for a painless death before it all comes crashing down.
And to my eyes, the vast majority of material here in FutureHi, from the forums to many of these front page entries, are about maximising self worth and happiness, albeit in non-material way.
Live life to the full, I mean seriously its called seratonin and its a chemical, try just a little to overcome the addiction with teasing your own mind into releasing this stuff, and start devoting that immense tool of thought to things that ultimatly matter once you have inevitably dissapeared.
**HINT** Ideological war.
Since the birth of mankind peoples with different views have fought to bend the world their way. The ideology of sucking up everything around you and spitting out things to amuse and surround and feed yourself with is approaching its end.
The people/contributors/visitors to this site see a different future, one of absolute freedom and potential mastery over the physical and perhaps mental.
But there is another, born and crafted and shaped within the poorest/most brutaly run countries and nations with the richest histories and far deeper connections and empathy to the entire history of our race than anyone can possibly realise.
While at the very core these ideologies may be the same, unity, peace, prosperity, discovery, you can be absolutly sure that in the hands of the masses there will be no other result upon the crumbling of the Developed world than a long and brutal war.
Dont believe me?
1. Outmanouvre your enemy.
Developed nations cannot be outmanouvered on the battle field and destroyed. They can be outmanouvered via time however. Time has in the past shown that overwhelmingly powerful enemies can and do weaken. Currently there is a highly likely time limit on the ability of Developed nations to sustain their power barring a plateau of advancement.
2. Strangle your enemies ability to sustain war.
By pulling Developed nations into multiple theatres of war, and having highlighted the greatest potential for victory being the decline of your foes power due to inability to sustain themselves, you can pull their resources and attention away from 'potential' internal troubles. (People obssesion with their own mortality combined with democracy shall be an exceptional help). Avoid them succesfully addressing the greatest long term risks to their security, and that is sustainability.
3. Weaken support for your enemy and gain sympathy for yourself via propoganda.
At home fundamentalist martyrism will help to gain sympathy especially when combined with the stark reality if poor and impoverished and wartorn surroundings.
Abroad, well the mantra 'the West is killing the world and its people' is pretty powerful tool for splitting the most powerful and succesful from the less so of its supporters, especially among general populations.
4. Weaken the morale of the enemy for a long term war. The kind of War you are fighting.
September 11th caused widespread coming together of the Western World. Iraq is systematically removing all of that cameraderie, and weakening day by day the morale of the general population for long term war. Iran is next and soon.
5. Await For an Opportunity, then Draw your Enemy into a war of your choosing.
The equalising power of long term climate change, fuel and energy problems, overcrowding and social unrest are well documented and key throughout all of human history.
By striking at unprotected allies (at this time via suicide bombers etc.) you can systematically weaken the centre, further removing ability for sustained warfare, and multiple theatres of war, especially warfare of your choosing that the enemy is unprepared for.
Jihad is a nasty affliction affecting our world just now. Should the developed nations decline, instead of the poorer nations develop, then that anger and rage will remain, and the battlefields will be more equal.
Do not forget that the ideology of fundamentalist Islam has grown up in a region of exceptionally long history, military miracles, and religious and ideological richness.
Can you imagine Al-Quida invading Europe? Or South American invasions into the North?
Even I can see that time is on the side of the enemies of the West, even I can work out a basic principle around which to base an ideological war, and above all show my followers how WE CAN WIN.
But why do I even bother writing this? 'Its not relevant to FutureHi', 'No one wants to listen to your arguements with yourself'
Its wholly relevant to the future of our species, its entireally extrapolated hypothetically from where we are today as a world, and its inspired by comments to this post.
But I will be surprised to get a reply that isnt some condemnation of bothering to even write let alone discuss *shock* anything of any real value to TODAY.
And Paul, I do appreciate the work and principle behind this site, nay fiercly believe in it with all my heart and soul, thats why I bother coming here inspite of the fierce opposition to my presence.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 14, 2006 11:49 AMI welcome and enjoy reading your comments eventhorizon. One of the smartest things you can do is have a "Devli's Advocate". To make you wash the fairy dust out of your eyes.
I feel your anger and despair. All this happy, happy, joy, joy stuff while Rome burns around us.
You want solid logical answers. There are none. And there never has been. We are all groping around in the dark, feeling our way inch by inch.
But just maybe, together we'll find our way to unlock the door, unlock the door that ends this dismal darkness of despair.
Our history is nothing but war and men supposedly fighting for freedom. Our freedom will never be won with war. Our freedom will only come when we can finally see ourselves in another man's eyes.
Our freedom will only come when we all learn to think with our hearts and "Walk the Red Road".
I like you eventhorizon. But I'm a happy, happy, joy, joy kinda girl. But I'm pissed too!
Posted by: Connie at March 14, 2006 03:57 PM"We must be clear about one thing: The human being is not a fluke of nature, nor does nature automatically guarantee his survival. The human being is but one player in a huge game, the outcome of which is, for him, uncertain. He has to make full use of his capabilities to hold his own as a player and not become a plaything of chance."
From: Eigen M. & Winkler R. (1981) Laws of the Game: How the Principles of Nature Govern Chance, London, Allen Lane.
I certinaly don't want you to stop posting or be banished from this site, EventHorizon. You know that. I, too, can (and do occasionally) feel a bit of despair at all the bullshit going on. But there is a whole lot of good stuff goin on as well. Perhaps we should write our Congresscritters and Parlimentcritters, demanding that they (***along with China***) get with the GENI program, integrate all the world's electrical grids, and this by self will have a salvic, certainly anti-bellicose, effect. It will allow more efficient use of electricity, and will also for the easier integration of zero-point energy tech.
**The Coming Dark Age** by Roberto (??) Vacca!? F.M. Esfandiary alluded to this book in his own **Telespheres**, and called it mere jet exhaust...
Sure, there are problems. But there are also solutions---some technological, some social-institutional, many of them are a combination of both...
But we don't have to plummet into Global War-cum-NewDarkAge...There is abundant cause for hope...
(May add more later...)
Stick around, EventHorizon...your input is welcome...
Live long & prosper all...
Posted by: MCP2012 at March 14, 2006 08:09 PMI'm saddened to see that Metzner too is sounding somewhat of a death-knell. ... But there are lots of people out there, right now, working for positive, unselfish change. People that genuinely realize that the extenuation of their own happiness is in part dependant upon the general happiness of the population at large. ... I for one refuse to bow to paranoia. ... PRONOIA is alive and well, and gaining momentum everyday. ... While I have at other times felt that your comments were off base, Eventhorizen, I really think what you have said above is very valid. I feel it deeply. Its true. But I refuse to give into despair over it. I hope you will too. ... We as a species are being sqeezed through the birth canal right now. We've never been truly born, and right now it looks like a quick dark death lies up ahead. ... But its our perspective thats skewed. We wont be the same on the other side, but its not the end. ... Right now this process we see in the world at large is being repeated on a small scale in many individual lives all over the world. I am no exception. The past two weeks have rocked and all but destroyed all my personal dreams, hopes, and wishes for my own personal future. ... The fact that these changes are seeeping us all gives me a glimmer of hope that a universal conspiracy is in effect to better us both as individuals and as a species whether we want it or not! ...
It's never too late to see the Light.
Namaste to all.
p.s. MCP -- I've been looking for a copy of Telespheres for ages! Any ideas where I might find one?! Thnx.
Posted by: Upwinger at March 15, 2006 05:45 AMEvent Horizon wrote,
>Welcome to the mindset of the oblivious as they >destroy our Planet.
Welcome to the mindset of eco-disasterbating yahoos, who, like their overtly religious counterparts live in fear that someone, somewhere may find happiness w/out properly groveling before
Goddess Gaia. Who can do nothing more constructive than scare people with doomsday nonsense that inflicts needless guilt trips, leads to hysterical restraints on the very advances that could alleviate the problems you describe, and, worst of all, **distracts people from the real existential risks that DO potentially imperil us all**
>The megacrime I was referring to was expunging >ones self of all responsibility for the survival >and progress of our species, for the suffering >and death of our planet, and of the racial, >religious and social crimes and wars and >intolerance, because you happen to be mortal. >This IS what our species does. This IS why China >is constructing vast amounts of fossil fuel >power plants to fuel its nation, and the nations >of the world are not pooling their resources and >powers so China doesnt have to do this.
Well, then, the obvious solution to this "crime"
(against who, exactly? If "we" are all "perps",
doesn't this qualify as the ultimate "victimless
crime"?) is to make humans less mortal! More cogently, the real reason for "apathy" in these matters is, simply, that individuals in most cases can do little about them. If people acted in concert, their actions could be effective-
and I suspect that podcasting, flash-mobbing, etc is starting to make that plausible. The salvation (not to mention transcension) of our species may well lie, not in any grand Utopian schemes, but in the miniaturized comm gear in our pockets, used to facilitate real-time actions.
Yes China is building fossil-fuel plants. Is the Three Gorges monstrosity(probably the worst case of eminent-domain abuse in history) supposed to be an improvement?
Speaking for myself, I AM concerned; what I do/advocate/express is intended to strike at the root of such problems- domination of some sapients by others; I am currently mortal, but I
do not believe it likely that I will remain so for more than 2-3 decades; I DO expect to exist (on Earth or elsewhere) in a hundred years, or for that matter a hundred thousand. Of course, that isn't guranteed, but neither is waking up tomorrow.
I don't think Ralph is thinking it's the end of the human species. What he is saying is that it is the end of everything we've known, and from the signs of global politics a total collapse. I have to say I can't find fault in this belief. Although it is probably skewed in some deep way, I can say with confidence, that the coming changes will not be pretty AT ALL. At this point I can see no way that the human species can steer away from a massive species die-off. I think the question is, not how this will happen, but how it will NOT happen.
I also think bk_2112 is right that we can't succumb to this idea that because things are in high probability going south that we should not take full advantage of everything WE DO HAVE to make it as best we can. Like bk_2112 I plan on being around in a hundred years, hopefully by then basking in the sunlight of a newly discovered planet.
EH is right - there has been nothing provided by this site or anywhere else that I have found that can provide substantive evidence that the next 20 years will NOT result in large-scale destuction and death. All of our pretty and happy thoughts are not enough. Continuing to go on about how if *enough* people get on the bandwagon and things could move towards utopia isn't going to cut it anymore. Everyone already knows that with *enough* people you can do damn well near anything. That has never been the challenge. No... the challenge is getting those *enough* people in the first place. And how do you, they, we propose to do that???? I'm out of answers, assuming I ever had any. There was a time not long ago, that I thought that most people aspire towards a basic utopian ideal, and the challenge was simply getting them all to colloborate in some way. And that it would only take something like the internet and p2p to facilitate to get that colloboration to take place. But obviously THAT isn't happening. Rather, what we've had since the internet, is more chaos, more war, more political oppression, fixed elections, more barbarism, more resource depletion, more global warming, more ice cap melting, more pollution, more torture, more terrorism.... this list goes on and on. Where exactly are things getting better? What difference does all this so-called "magical" cool technology actually doing to make a significant and systemic improvement in society and peoples lives??
We can go on about how nanotech will be our savior, but I can't even begin to imagine what kinds of horrors would be unleashed if assembler nanotech were made available right now.
This is where I agree with the Singularity Institute. They agree that things are fucked, and so they think that only a sufficiently advance intelligence can do the trick. I agree that only sufficiently advanced intelligence will do it. They believe that only a super-AI will be that intelligence, whereas I have been saying that it will take something more profound within the human species to make that a reality. Now I have no idea, and believe that neight they or us at Future Hi have it right.
Until we can answer these questions, I think Ralph is right, absolutely right. Besides doing everything we can to turn the tide towards survival and prosperity, we also need to do a serious reality check about how bad things actually are. Acceptance is a great liberator. Acceptance however does not mean apathy.
Posted by: Paul at March 15, 2006 09:10 AMHappiness is something that doesnt concern me a whole lot. Pain and suffering, the world around me, history and the future, yeah this things occupy my mind constantly, but happiness is never something I am afraid to live without for a period of time.
And dont get me wrong, I KNOW a great many millions of people can live in happiness by denying reality. Look at the amount of overweight happy people in the West, and the amount of starving and dying people on the African Continent.
I never once said people have to embrace Gaia to be happy. I said they have to embrace Gaia to stop being criminals. Stop being a cursed afflication of parasites sucking at a particularly rich and deep wound, kicking, shooting, nuking their enemies into securing thmeselves and their stuanchest allies alone the riches of the animal carcass they are slowly bleeding to death.
Ever read Isaac Asimovs 'I, Robot'? one of the three fundamental laws programmed into every android is 'I shall not through inaction allow harm to come to any human being, as long as it doesnt contravene the first 2 laws'.
What law do you follow? The law of incredulous rejection of any fundamental planetary issues, allowing yourself a solid platform for the continuation of and the further persuit of, personal happiness regardless of consequence, in so far as you dont compromise your own future by doing something silly?
As for this statement, 'Speaking for myself, I AM concerned; what I do/advocate/express is intended to strike at the root of such problems- domination of some sapients by others', this has to be one of the most short-sighted statements I have ever read on this site posing as something intelligent. In no particular order (because I have not spent the time trying to work out what factors have more immediate control) you are dominated by, primarilly: The entirety of human history, in other words the entire human civilisation you see around you from America to Africa to Asia to the Artic, is simply the currently existing human population operating and living within the results of the actions of the entire history of humanity : 5 Billions years of Earth existance, that gave rise to YOU : 6 Billion years of Universal Existance, which gives rise to everything around you.
Quite simply, people today dont dominate other people. The situations and constructs of society, or surroundings, ideas and ideologies of times gone past, and the results of the results of the results of 10's of thousands of years of Homo Sapien Sapien ATLEAST activity and existance, WITHIN and UPON the Earth and Universe, is what dominates your existance in your particular part of the world.
You Government doesnt control you. It can manipulate you, but it itself is a set of systems arising from the depths of history that allows certain individuals certain level of power. Your President doesnt have control, it is those lifeless systems created from history that have control, that dominate. It has long been obvious, to me atleast, that people can play the parts that history and existance enables them to play.
The fundamental issues at the heart of the world today as I see it is domination by human desires, the systems that were set up and have evolved to 'manage' and 'satisfy' and 'control' SECTIONS of humanity and fear of death.
Make no mistake, for all their grumblings, and gasps of shock, those in the most wealthy nations, those who 'have' the most dont particularly dislike their way of life. They just dont like to think they do anything wrong buy not SHARING, and so invent and point to myriad systems and other things and say 'even if we wanted to we couldnt'. And they are happy telling themselves that. 'Blame the President, and CUT OIL PRICES!!'
Fools.
I dont see a whole lot worthy of despair if our current way of life collapses, I despair however if the people alive today are too blind to be able to steer this collapse to something more 'equal' or 'fair' or less competitive and destructive.
I always considered 'eco-disasterbating yahoos' to be exceptionally one dimensional, and have no 'real' idea regarding the potential threats and dangers from all angles facing people at any time. But then 'eco-disasterbating yahoos' tend to value the sanctity of 'Gaia' above and beyond anything else, even the ability to marvel at 'Gaia'.
'Who can do nothing more constructive than scare people with doomsday nonsense that inflicts needless guilt trips, leads to hysterical restraints on the very advances that could alleviate the problems you describe, and, worst of all, **distracts people from the real existential risks that DO potentially imperil us all**'
Are you afraid? Get over it. If not, perhaps you can tell me the real 'existential risks' beyond greed, fear of death, ecological upheaval, systematic and civil decline, hunger, war, death, fear, anger, hate, resentment.
I am as much in the dark as anyone as to where 'we' are headed, because the future has yet to happen, atleast as far as I am able to observe. I hope though, having spent no small amount of time thinking about these kind of things, that my posts on these topics have served to highlight in great and perhaps exhaustive detail a lot more peril than some people might have considered previously.
And Paul, your last post was excellant, summing up in a few paragraphs what I have tried to say in some form on some subjects in mountains of badly received (perhaps badly written) posts.
However I hope that despair isnt the only thing to come out of 'observing from that angle'.
Think of it this way.
Our entire civilisation and the way we operate as groups, the way we interact with each other, and our surroundings, has to change. There is a definate lifespan for our current civil mechanism, if you will. Even if fuel sources can be harnassed, our current way of life as exists right now, is unequal, unjust, power hungry, exploitative, and 'wrong'.
The potential for our species, in this Universe, has been exhaustivly explored. This site embraces that potential, explores ways to achieve it, and spreads messages of spiritual and collective profoundity.
Our current civilisation can either evolve and grow and improve and metamorphose, albeit slowly and grudgingly, to ever increasingly embrace the principles of unity and equality and absolute freedom.
Or it can decline, slowly or spectactularly collapse.
As far as I am concerned FutureHi, you, and everyone else are one the first groups of people to explore the future in such a complete way, from where are today. There is plenty that can be done, even here on this site, if you and others wish to embrace this 'tide of history'.
Embrace the development and progress of our species in the near future as a matter of urgancy. Write about addressing the problems of instability, conflict, split and warring idealogies, and how we must overcome these to AS A SINGLE SPECIES confront the collapse of the highest level of prosperity, technology and discovery humanity has ever seen. But do so in a way that addresses not individual spirituality, but human interaction and the constraints of our civilisation.
In other words explore potential metamorphosis of institutions that exist, to in the short term atleast, provide a far greater level of equality, and efficiency across the entire Globe.
And also, explore and write and discuss the potential of climate change on human movements, centres of civilisations, its affect on current civilisations. Explore what the future holds should we not address our problems in time, and explore how this new future can be best harnassed to persue the ultimate aims as written within this site.
For example, will the Russian steppes become extremelly fertile and warm and wet? Will the communist philosophy that has existed within those peoples affect the outcome of a human 'rebirth' in a natural rich region. What can be done to prevent brutal dictatorships, and ensure security and above all unity and equality and efficiency and progress?
How can individuals minimise problems should vary degrees of collapse or alteration take place, is it likely Americans will within 5 Generations or so have to start learning how to farm? Or what are the likely permutations of states etc?
Despair? Far from it. When Greek power slowly faded, Rome was born. Our way of life may be reaching its ultimate end, but it is a NEW DAWN, there is change coming, one way or the other, and right here we can explore it, and prepare for it.
Or we can sit back and see who is right.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 15, 2006 10:56 AM[I haven't read through the comments so forgive me if I'm repeating anyone]
...the images emerging from the worldwide military prison gulag, and the fact that the possible ethical and legal justification of torture has become a topic of debate and discussion in politics and academics, is one sign of a civilization that is collapsing into barbarism.
While I very much respect Dr. Metzner, I have to disagree with his assessment in this statement. I would argue that the level of barbarism we're currently seeing has always been around and is not a sign of some descent into chaos (though that's not to say there aren't other valid signs). I think what Dr. Metzner is seeing is simply the result of global media and communication. Barbarism can no longer remain hidden. Torture, domestic spying, secret wars - all of these activities have been prety much standard operating procedure of the ruling classes for millenia. The only difference is that now the average person is aware of them because of the liberation of reporting brought about by the web.
Suffering, corruption, and injustice are all being driven from the shadows. Most of what was considered wild conspiracy theory 10-15 years ago is now common knowledge.
We all get that the web is wiring up the global brain. But what we haven't grasped is that it's also wiring up the global heart.
Posted by: lvx23 at March 15, 2006 11:24 AMConsider also that emergent states are often sudden events, not slow evolutions. I tend to suspect that as we wire up our communication networks personal self-awareness will undergo a shift into global self-awareness. I don't think we'll make any major changes before we can self-reflect as a species. We're still caught up in the individual trip.
Posted by: lvx23 at March 15, 2006 11:30 AM"the fact that the possible ethical and legal justification of torture has become a topic of debate and discussion in politics and academics, is one sign of a civilization that is collapsing into barbarism."
I totally agree with this statement. While 'Barbarism' can no longer remain hidden, it is also no longer being vehemenantly rejected and denounced. Discuss 'torture' with military or police types in the UK or USA, and the higher ranking members, especially of elite groups, will inform you not only is it absolutley essential, but it is entireally justified.
But look at it another way. Would you say that your towns and cities, schools and bars, sports arenas and high streets, society in general, is any more or less or equally violent, more or less or equally intolerant of other, more or less or equally tolerant of quote 'nasty' actions? than it has been in the last 60 years?
Would you not agree society in general has become more focused on the self and money, more inflexible and rigid in terms of compassion and empathy in day to day life (work), more frightened in general of other people (strangers). I would say, based upon my own experiance, that there is more tension and possibly danger in public places than there ever was in the post war years.
Does this mean we have got over our shock of war? Or that we are forgetting our lessons and descending back to those levels?
Infact forgive me for being melodramatic, but I would say the world as I observe it is unanimously and in general a barbaric place in the early 21st century.
"Torture, domestic spying, secret wars - all of these activities have been prety much standard operating procedure of the ruling classes for millenia. The only difference is that now the average person is aware of them because of the liberation of reporting brought about by the web."
So the general population are aware of these activities, and Bush's approval rating last month was around 36%, and this is his second terms. Does that mean the American population in general know of these activities and are willing to accept them? Is that not barbaric?
There was a lot said at the end of the last world war. But ultimatly all the hopes and dreams and promises made by those who experianced World War, have died along with them, to be replaced slowly by a new generation that have never experianced war, only popularity contests growing up, shallowness and money chasing, and see little or no value in human life beyond their own and those people they call their friends.
"We all get that the web is wiring up the global brain. But what we haven't grasped is that it's also wiring up the global heart."
Perhaps this is true, and for sure with time, in the near future, it shall become more true. But it is not an absolute mechanism for enlightening people and making them think more clearly and altruistically. What it absolutely is, is a mechanism for the widespread and instantaneous spread of views and ideas and interpretations. This means that while you, and I, hope desperatly that people find inspiration and hope, they also and equally may find dogma and mantra of a powerful nature.
To put it overdramatically yet again, the internet itself would not disciminate between the works of new Jesus or Buddha, or New Hitler or Stalin. People can find anything online.
And I have to disagree with this statement, "Consider also that emergent states are often sudden events, not slow evolutions." Emergant states appear as the sudden waves cresting the slow evolution of what is underlying. Be it actual states, doctrine and philosophy, movements of people, technological developement, you name it. There is nothing that is not born from influence of what goes on previously, everything can be traced and linked backwards and together.
"I tend to suspect that as we wire up our communication networks personal self-awareness will undergo a shift into global self-awareness. I don't think we'll make any major changes before we can self-reflect as a species. We're still caught up in the individual trip."
I agree with this, but I dont see unanimity in the near future. I see the coalescing and merging of doctrines and philosophy into two distinct types, sustainability versus revolution. Underpinned by various religious and scientific and spiritual beliefs and social and political and racial alignments.
By the way, great topic, forgive me for overdoing the post and word count.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 15, 2006 02:16 PM"What I find even more incredulous, even more repugnant is that you can be so blase about the possible eradication and extinction of the mind that created music, art, and looked up and marvelled at the mysteries of the stars. Do you have any sense whatsoever of things beyond your individual self? Your very life, your ability to laugh, your love, were all given to you, allowed to exist, by this Earth, this Universe, this mighty existance. You owe everything, and are in the greatest debt there can be, to EVERYTHING around you."
I've read many of your posts and quietly thought you were a little too rough in explaining your ideas. But I agree with you wholeheartedly that this type of "Well I'll leave it to later generations" type of mentality is exactly why this type of Dominator Culture/Civilization is gonna end up falling on it's ass . . . maybe within our lifetimes. And it's not a matter of IF it will happen but simply a matter of WHEN. Iam glad you called out that whimsical lackadaisical attitude Dan was spouting out, I nearly wanted to start screaming. I think some of us need to read a little "Ishmael" to get things in perspective. We owe it to ourselves, our future generations and our planet to stop with the Dominator Culture madness and to take action to save ourselves before it's too late. Theres probally thousands of planets in our galaxy filled with the dead husks of civilizations that just did not know/care that when "resources run out, YOU run out".
Posted by: nmatrix9 at March 15, 2006 02:39 PM"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished.
That will be the beginning."
Louis L'Amour
Do you all believe that your own reality is created by yourselves or not? (Either from spiritual perspective or from the information we have regarding the physics of the material world we are experiencing).
If you believe 'No, I do not create my own reality', then we are fucked. It is all fucked, Everything is definitely fucked because 'Yes' then you are at the mercy of 'human nature' and at the mercy of all the other people who are 'doing it to you' and the current madness all around. All that can probably be done in that case is to sit and discuss what is wrong, analyse how it got that way and use this information to project the bleak future that WILL (thy will be done) definitely be the outcome of that passive flowchart. In fact there is no point in even spending time discussing it - you may as well take Dan's quite sensible advice. (All he seems to be saying is that if we are going down then we might as well not whinge the entire time. I don't think he is being whimsical etc. Pragmatic is more like it) If you don't believe that you create your own reality probably don't bother reading any further because you'll just think the rest of this is a pile of crap anyway.
If you believe, 'Yes, I do create my own reality', then we still have some hope. Oh yes, just hope. Sorry there is no guarantee. No simple formula. I think the 'game', the 'created reality' just got really hard, guys. I think we're all up against the wall. It's going to be about imagination and courage. It's going to be about whose 'magic' is strongest - the more awake or the hollow people. If you have any hope at all left then NOW is the time to put the skills you have gathered into practise. You all know what those skills are. They are quite different and varied (yay for diversity) but all equally valid. You MUST strengthen your minds. There is no other option. Really, NO other option. It's OK to be a bit sad and freaked out and scared and confused now and then and necessary to express that - fuck, its unavoidable. But you MUST strengthen your hearts. NOW
LVX23 is so right re things are no more barbaric then previously. I think being dropped into 12century where ever would strike most of us as pretty barbaric. It just that it is all laid out in front of us all now to see and that can be pretty hard to take at times, (yuckky reflection) but surely having access to the total picture gives an advantage to finding the solution. (I'm sure there's an Art of War-type strategy that covers that concept and says it's a position of power. If there isn't one, then there should be.) Seeing 'all', seeing and being informed gobally - this could be a good thing. This could be leverage.
LVX23 said: We all get that the web is wiring up the global brain. But what we haven't grasped is that it's also wiring up the global heart.
And the global psyche. And the psyche is always slower to catch up with what the brain and the heart have learnt. And the ego likes to think it knows everything by what it knows. This is what is happening. We (me too) look and we think, 'No future. I'm so informed that I can see no future'. We don't know hardly anything guys. We are still assimilating so much. Like when you do some bodywork and you think (mind), 'Oh, I've done my bodywork'. And then later then psyche catches up and realises the true experience and information and implication of the bodywork done. Really, I don't think we have all the information AT ALL yet. Have hope, faith and belief. Do it now! No, now!
I, too, refuse to bow to the paranoia (permanently at least.) This is not namby-pamby thinking. (Can't you tell by now that I'm super-cynical.) This not-logical conclusion is what I've learned in my life. This is what most of you here have learned. You're cerebral people or else you wouldn't even be sitting blabbing into your computers. Do more of your bodywork. Do more of your practice. But now! I don't think the talking cure is going to be the whole solution. Don't be distracted by all the lights and colours. Focus. Concentrate. Do your magic. NOW.
Posted by: thIsIsreaLLYHApPEniNG at March 15, 2006 09:01 PMI must apologise in advance. The forums are down, and I have just come across something I wish to share with FutureHi. Reading this has made me smile. Please bear with me and give it a thorough read, if I may presume you interest. Again, apologies, because this may be recieved as spam or even vandalism.
This is the book of the words of righteousness, and of the reproof of the Watchers, who belong to the world, according to that which He, who is holy and great, commanded in the vision. I perceived in my dream, that I was now speaking with a tongue of flesh, and with my breath, which the Mighty One has put into the mouth of men, that they might converse with it. And understand with the heart. As he has created and given to men the power of comprehending the word of understanding, so has he created and given to me the power of reproving the Watchers, the offspring of heaven. I have written your petition; and in my vision it has been shown me, that what you request will not be granted you as long as the world endures. Judgment has been passed upon you: your request will not be granted you. From this time forward, never shall you ascend into heaven; He has said, that on the earth He will bind you, as long as the world endures. But before these things you shall behold the destruction of your beloved sons; you shall not possess them, but they shall fall before you by the sword. Neither shall you entreat for them, not for yourselves; But you shall weep and supplicate in silence. The words of the book which I wrote.
A vision thus appeared to me. Behold, in that vision clouds and a mist invited me; agitated stars and flashes of lightning impelled and pressed me forwards, while winds in the vision assisted my flight, accelerating my progress. They elevated me aloft to heaven. I proceeded, until I arrived at a wall built with stones of crystal. A vibrating flame surrounded it, which began to strike me with terror. Into this vibrating flame I entered; And drew nigh to a spacious habitation built also with stones of crystal. Its walls too, as well as pavement, were formed with stones of crystal, and crystal likewise was the ground. Its roof had the appearance of agitated stars and flashes of lightning; and among them were cherubim of fire in a stormy sky. A flame burned around its walls; and its portal blazed with fire. When I entered into this dwelling, it was hot as fire and cold as ice. No trace of delight or of life was there. Terror overwhelmed me, and a fearful shaking seized me. Violently agitated and trembling, I fell upon my face. In the vision I looked. And behold there was another habitation more spacious than the former, every entrance to which was open before me, erected in the midst of a vibrating flame. So greatly did it excel in all points, in glory, in magnificence, and in magnitude, that it is impossible to describe to you either the splendour or the extent of it. Its floor was on fire; above were lightnings and agitated stars, while its roof exhibited a blazing fire. Attentively I surveyed it, and saw that it contained an exalted throne; The appearance of which was like that of frost; while its circumference resembled the orb of the brilliant sun; and there was the voice of the cherubim. From underneath this mighty throne rivers of flaming fire issued. To look upon it was impossible. One great in glory sat upon it: Whose robe was brighter than the sun, and whiter than snow. No angel was capable of penetrating to view the face of Him, the Glorious and the Effulgent; nor could any mortal behold Him. A fire was flaming around Him. A fire also of great extent continued to rise up before Him; so that not one of those who surrounded Him was capable of approaching Him, among the myriads of myriads who were before Him. To Him holy consultation was needless. Yet did not the sanctified, who were near Him, depart far from Him either by night or by day; nor were they removed from Him. I also was so far advanced, with a veil on my face, and trembling. Then the Lord with his own mouth called me, saying, Approach hither, Enoch, at my holy word. And He raised me up, making me draw near even to the entrance. My eye was directed to the ground.
Then addressing me, He spoke and said, Hear, neither be afraid, O righteous Enoch, you scribe of righteousness: approach hither, and hear my voice. Go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent you to pray for them, You ought to pray for men, and not men for you. Wherefore have you forsaken the lofty and holy heaven, which endures for ever, and have lain with women; have defile yourselves with the daughters of men; have taken to yourselves wives; have acted like the sons of the earth, and have begotten an impious offspring? You being spiritual, holy, and possessing a life which is eternal, have polluted yourselves with women; have begotten in carnal blood; have lusted in the blood of men; and have done as those who are flesh and blood do. These however die and perish. Therefore have I given to them wives, that they might cohabit with them; that sons might be born of them; and that this might be transacted upon earth. But you from the beginning were made spiritual, possessing a life which is eternal, and not subject to death for ever. Therefore I made not wives for you, because, being spiritual, your dwelling is in heaven. Now the giants, who have been born of spirit and of flesh, shall be called upon earth evil spirits, and on earth shall be their habitation. Evil spirits shall proceed from their flesh, because they were created from above; from the holy Watchers was their beginning and primary foundation. Evil spirits shall they be upon earth, and the spirits of the wicked shall they be called. The habitation of the spirits of heaven shall be in heaven; but upon earth shall be the habitation of terrestrial spirits, who are born on earth. The spirits of the giants shall be like clouds, which shall oppress, corrupt, fall, content, and bruise upon earth. They shall cause lamentation. No food shall they eat; and they shall be thirsty; they shall be concealed, and shall rise up against the sons of men, and against women; for they come forth during the days of slaughter and destruction. And as to the death of the giants, wheresoever their spirits depart from their bodies, let their flesh, that which is perishable, be without judgment. Thus shall they perish, until the day of the great consummation of the great world. A destruction shall take place of the Watchers and the impious. And now to the Watchers, who have sent you to pray for them, who in the beginning were in heaven, Say, In heaven have you been; secret things, however, have not been manifested to you; yet have you known a reprobated mystery. And this you have related to women in the hardness of your heart, and by that mystery have women and mankind multiplied evils upon the earth. Say to them, Never therefore shall you obtain peace.
They raised me up into a certain place, where there was the appearance of a burning fire; and when they pleased they assumed the likeness of men. They carried me to a lofty spot, to a mountain, the top of which reach to heaven. And I beheld the receptacles of light and of thunder at the extremities of the place, where it was deepest. There was a bow of fire, and arrows in their quiver, a sword of fire, and every species of lightning. Then they elevated me to a babbling stream, and to a fire in the west, which received all the setting of the sun. I came to a river of fire, which flowed like water, and emptied itself into the great sea westwards. I saw every large river, until I arrived at the great darkness. I went to where all of flesh migrate; and I beheld the mountains of the gloom which constitutes winter, and the place from which issues the water in every abyss. I saw also the mouths of all the rivers in the world, and the mouths of the deep. I then surveyed the receptacles of all the winds, perceiving that they contributed to adorn the whole creation, and to preserve the foundation of the earth. I surveyed the stone which supports the corners of the earth. I also beheld the four winds, which bear up the earth, and the firmament of heaven. And I beheld the winds occupying the exalted sky. Arising in the midst of heaven and of earth, and constituting the pillars of heaven. I saw the winds which turn the sky, which cause the orb of the sun and of all the stars to set; and over the earth I saw the winds which support the clouds. I saw the path of the angels. I perceived at the extremity of the earth the firmament of heaven above it. Then I passed on towards the south; Where burnt, both by day and night, six mountains formed of glorious stones; three towards the east, and three towards the south. Those which were towards the east were of a variegated stone; one of which was of margarite, and another of antimony. Those towards the south were of a red stone. The middle one reached to heaven like the throne of God; a throne composed of alabaster, the top of which was of sapphire. I saw, too, a blazing fire hanging over all the mountains. And there I saw a place on the other side of an extended territory, where waters were collected. I likewise beheld terrestrial fountains, deep in the fiery columns of heaven. And in the columns of heaven I beheld fires, which descended without number, but neither on high, nor into the deep. Over these fountains also I perceived a place which had neither the firmament of heaven above it, nor the solid ground underneath it; neither was there water above it; nor anything on wing; but the spot was desolate. And there I beheld seven stars, like great blazing mountains, and like spirits entreating me. Then the angel said, This place, until the consummation of heaven and earth, will be the prison of the stars, and the host of heaven. The stars which roll over fire are those which transgressed the commandment of God before their time arrived; for they came not in their proper season. Therefore was He offended with them, and bound them, until the period of the consummation of their crimes in the secret year. Then Uriel said, Here the angels, who cohabited with women, appointed their leaders; And assuming many forms made men profane, and caused them to err; so that they sacrificed to devils as to gods. For in the great day there shall be a judgment, with which they shall be judged, until they are consumed; and their wives also shall be judged, who led astray the angels of heaven that they might salute them. And I, Enoch, I alone saw the likeness of the end of all things. Nor did any human being see it, as I saw it.
Then I made a circuit to a place in which nothing was completed. And there I beheld neither the tremendous workmanship of an exalted heaven, nor of an established earth, but a desolate spot, prepared, and terrific. There, too, I beheld seven stars of heaven bound in it together, like great mountains, and like a blazing fire. I exclaimed, For what species of crime have they been bound, and why have they been removed to this place? Then Uriel, one of the holy angels who was with me, and who conducted me, answered: Enoch, wherefore do you ask; wherefore do you reason with yourself, and anxiously inquire? These are those of the stars which have transgressed the commandment of the most high God; and are here bound, until the infinite number of the days of their crimes be completed. From there I afterwards passed on to another terrific place; Where I beheld the operation of a great fire blazing and glittering, in the midst of which there was a division. Columns of fire struggled together to the end of the abyss, and deep was their descent. But neither its measurement nor magnitude was I able to discover; neither could I perceive its origin. Then I exclaimed, How terrible is this place, and how difficult to explore! Uriel, one of the holy angels who was with me, answered and said: Enoch, why are you alarmed and amazed at this terrific place, at the sight of this place of suffering? This, he said, is the prison of the angels; and here they are kept for ever.
Book of Enoch.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 15, 2006 09:04 PMChris (lvx23) is right: We are mrely becoming more AWARE of barbarism and human-rights violations that are and have been occuring. And we must rail against them. The more people become informed of the altrenatives--thru this site, other transhumanist sites, thru (Bucky) Fullerian-oriented websites, etc., then we can reasonably hope that people will begin to demand positive change. Also, it is IMPERATIVE that we be able to use psychedelics (and, perhaps other yogic techniques) to activate higher brain circuits. Let's not forget this latter. Paul (and others here) are definitely into the Leary/Wilson/Lilly model of higher brain-mind circuit-functioning. This latter WILL happen. Indeed, there are reasonable grounds for hope that emerging neuro-tech will facilitate this as well...
Keep hope alive, folks. Lional Tiger's right: Optimism is the biology of hope.
More soon... (Keep on keepin' on, EventHorizon...)
Posted by: MCP2012 at March 15, 2006 09:59 PMI've been accused of being lackadaisical, a megacriminal and not caring. I think this is because I don't see guilt and misery as tools for positive transformation as other posters seem to. If you believe in the value of guilt and misery take a look at the history of societies that use these emotions as a means of control. You may notice that they are all locked in self destructive patterns of behaviour, and that joyful tolerant societies aren't.
I also don't mind admitting that we could be in a lot of trouble as a species. Instead of getting trapped in a conflict between optimism and pessimism try letting both go. You might find it a liberating nonperspective.
Posted by: Dan at March 16, 2006 03:11 AMI agree with you too Dan. Negative emotions such as guilt are absolutely useless in eveeryway. The good news is, every negative emotion can be intergrated into positive energy and action. I also agree with you that only thru Radical Acceptance do we have a chance to HONESTLY face the real problems confronting us. Only then do we have the choice to integrate those problems and fix them. Denying them or operating from guilt or any other negative emotion is a dead end. Ask the Germans in 1939, and who for the most part have still not integrated their guilt over the holocaust.
Posted by: Paul at March 16, 2006 08:27 AM"You may notice that they are all locked in self destructive patterns of behaviour, and that joyful tolerant societies aren't."
Show me one joyful tolerant society that has not buried its head in the sand and spends its days preaching to truck drivers, paedophiles and the homeless how treating each other like 'children of god' and letting go of sin shall be 'the way to salvation'.
Despair and optimism, again these things are about YOU THE INDIVIDUAL. You the individual who's happiness, fulfillment, safety and comfort in your own mind eclipses all else, and if you happen to live in the USA, whos happiness fulfillment and comfort ACTUALLY HAS eclipsed all else.
And as for Barbarism, yes you guys right, the past may occasionally have been more barbaric than today.
Texas electrocutes criminals, these people, in a system of law and justice that cannot be 100% accurate, get tied fully concsious to a chair, and are electrocuted via several individual different deliveries of current, while the families of the victim of this persons crime watch.
These SAME people who carry out these electrocutions will inflict mental suffering upon Death Row prisoners, keeping them up at night should they so desire, these SAME people shall then drive home in their large vehicles, to their large families, and their large TV's, perhaps go to church in their large vehicles, and will perhaps even sit infront of the tv, yelling at Bush to 'NUKE THOSE MUSLIM BASTARDS'.
Our world is a sickening pit of human depravity, and selfishness. Overindulgence and greed and suffering. You know what happens to violent and barbaric children if the remain violent and barbaric as they grow up? They get put on medication, and may eventually be removed from the public domain by means of force, and kept against their will, caged, under the guardianship of others, untill such time as someone else approves their release.
As I said before, despair and optimism and guilt 'negative feelings', when these become the focus of your attention in a time of trouble, then you are too weak to be of any help. These must be dealt with, your own fragile neurochemistry may occasionally in your life have to play a back seat role in terms of primary importance. Now yes, I understand how difficult this is to ask, which highlights my point even more about the REDICULOUS mess our race is in, but it has to be done.
I said before, and I say it again, if you are rising to a challange in whatever way you believe you possibly can, if you are dedicating yourself (succesfully or not) to a task, a time in history, if you believe in a cause, a cause greater than yourself (you must decide this) then I have said it before, and get over the 'me me me me me' in whatever forms it manifests itself.
I am going to be brutally honest.
There is not one of us here that is not a criminal in the sense I outlined above. There is not one of us here that does not value self to such a high point as to almost eclipse all other considerations, there is not one of us here that should not despair and feel guilty about their actions and inactions and justifications and excuses all throughout their lifetimes.
Then I shall be even more brutal honest.
Let it all go. It matters not to the path before you, before us. What is this self? Where is your spiritual awakening and psychadelic revelations? The self is the matrix through which we perceive and interact with the world. What use is their in denying guilt and embracing hope? What use is their in conditioning yourself? Embrace all that is true, as being true, enjoy the irony of being born within structures and systems of control. Understand the world, and your place untill now within it. Deny nothing, accept everything, and then use it. Use it as the core around which you build your determination to influence change. Optimism is the Biology of hope, Determination is the Biology of SUCCESS.
Success how? You might ask.
Let me ask you something.
If you bring light in the form of hope to an individual, can this not also bring darkness to the world in the form of that individuals denial? If an individual has hope and optimism, is it not possible that this could be opposite and detrimental to the world in general, at large?
But if you bring light to the WORLD, will this not bring light to EVERY individual, present and future? Will not your small ray of light upon the world be forever present in history, and therefore be felt throughout all eternity, as a grain of sand whose influence resonates throughout the entirety of a mighty castle which stands upon it?
And what constitutes this light? Is it optimism that things will not be so bad in the future as we all fear may be possible? Is it rejection of guilt or admission of sin? Does the appeasement of self here and now consitute light shining over the entirety of humanity for all eternity?
You may say that hope and optimism directed at people living now in this time of trouble can be this light.
I say hope and optimism must be given to all people in all times of all description throughout all of history, only can be this light.
You may say rejection of guilt of sin and action in life today can be this light.
I say rejection of EVERYTHING that holds you back from seeking a way to bring comfort to all people in all times is this light.
Ask yourself this.
What does it take, to make a person, in their own times of free thinking, in their own spare time, of their own desire, turn their attentions to the miracle of existance, the flow of history, the status of the world, and combine it with their own dreams?
This is where we will find our answer.
When each person on this planet stops at a traffic light and thinks not of their monetary/marital problems, or their hobbies, or what to spend their wages on, or what a moron that guy who pulled out in front of me is, but thinks about time, thinks about glittering cities and immortality, thinks about the march of humanity NOT to the beat of a drum, but rising upwards and outwards to the sounds of songs and laughter.
But here is the crux of the matter.
We can preach this all day, all night, and untill we die, and still the same systems are going to be strangling the dreams of every human being as soon as they wake up for work.
We can preach make the most of it, and dont despair, or hold on it will be ok, and people will not be free from the oppression of 'self satisfaction because there is nothing else', or the crushing grip of a sick and gigantic framework of civilisation.
But we can preach FIRST STEPS.
You want immortality before we even have equality? These are the foundations of our dreams, and each is required.
You want God like power before we even have Justice?
You want absolute freedom before we even live morally?
Here are our roots, as our timeless brothers still inform us from the depths of history. Here is where we begin, at the very start, at the very foundations of the future. That is what the present day always has been and always will be.
Equality and Justice, with a view to one day absolute freedom from all chains imposed upon us, be they social, physical, mental, enviromental.
There is a lesson for us, grandeous and majestic, sitting on the Giza Plateau in Egypt.
It is a massive structure, of astonishing equality and precision and stability. Constructed slowly from the massive base, layer by massive layer, towering up to a gleaming point, it is without any doubt the most awe inspiring human creation there has ever been.
And so, it becomes rather simple in the end.
We are not going to be able to avoid many of the results of the past and the present, whatever they may be. Tearing down the old to make space for the new may cause more trouble than is necessary, than we can deal with, it may not even be possible.
So what do we do? We start at the bottom, we prepare the foundations. We appeal to the simple things that everyone is aware of, that everyone one can understand is required, that everyone can call for and assist in creating. We inspire the crowd of future builders to call for a firm foundation for the basis of humanity. We inspire the world wide call for equality, and we tell everyone not to stop calling for it untill it is in place.
Equality among all people, and justice, the same justice for everyone. This is where we begin.
Does a parent make sacrifices for its child? Then, inspite of opposition to equality, we must all make sacrifices for all children that must then make their own sacrifices for all subsequent children, and so on untill we achieve the foundation that is required to build high for complete freedom for all people.
Then, when the 'self' lies upon its death bed, and thinks to itself 'what did I do', 'self' can say to itself 'I laid a stone in the most amazing construction there ever was'.
Equality, Justice, some day absolute Freedom.
Say it, think it, write it, preach it, live it.
eventhorizon,
If you think that the problem with America is that there is too much joy and tolerance I suspect that we will never see eye to eye.
If we are looking for paths to world salvation I see two directions we could take. One would be an outward trancendent spiral of tolerance and joy, the other would be an destructive inward spiral of misery and conflict.
Here is one path:
"Equality, Justice, some day absolute Freedom.
Say it, think it, write it, preach it, live it."
Here is the other:
"Our world is a sickening pit of human depravity, and selfishness. Overindulgence and greed and suffering."
Your not going to go far if you don't choose one and stick to it.
Posted by: Dan at March 16, 2006 12:40 PM"If you think that the problem with America is that there is too much joy and tolerance I suspect that we will never see eye to eye."
The problem with America is that it is one extreme of an unequal world. The problem with say Africa is that it is the other extreme of an unequal world. The problem with all the myriad nations and peoples inbetween is fear of ending up with one extreme, and envy of the other extreme.
Have a look at the world around you.
"If we are looking for paths to world salvation I see two directions we could take."
World salvation? Save the world? Save this world? Save what we currently have?
"One would be an outward trancendent spiral of tolerance and joy, the other would be an destructive inward spiral of misery and conflict."
And how do you propose to spread tolerance and joy among those whos homes have been bulldozed, or burned, or bombed, or washed away? How do you propose to promote tolerance of inequality amongst the hungry and the broken and the anguished, the envious, the fearful, the powerless?
By all means tolerate the rest of the world, and be happy, and try not to think too much about the misery and conflict that goes on for power and wealth and land and revenge and resources and religion.
I promote neither path, a transcendant spiral of joy is not going to 'save the world' as long as real lives are filled with inequality, injustice, misery and suffering.
"Here is one path:
"Equality, Justice, some day absolute Freedom.
Say it, think it, write it, preach it, live it.""
In my opinion the only path worth walking. What else can we aim for but equality and justice and one day absolute freedom? What other basis can their be if we wish to build a civilisation where people can persue a 'transcendant spiral of joy and tolerance'?
"Our world is a sickening pit of human depravity, and selfishness. Overindulgence and greed and suffering."
And so it is. Prove me wrong.
"Your not going to go far if you don't choose one and stick to it."
Have you even read my post?
It does not matter what dreams fill your head. The absolute foundation of any kind of stable civilisation for humanity does not exist. Neither practical or idealistic.
And as I try to point out, the practical and the idealistic go hand in hand, because you are dealing with people who act and react, who desire and hope and dream. You cannot bend the will of humanity to your aims, you can only embrace the collective desires of all people to be treated equally and fairly, and use this as the fundamental principle around which other, greater dreams can be achieved.
Tell me, realistically, how is your transcendant spiral of joy and tolerance going to spread throughout humanity? How is it going to be instilled in the hearts of the most angry and resentful of nations and peoples? Especially if inequality continues to exist?
Tell me, how transcendant spiral of joy and tolerance is going to overcome injustice and inequality? Or do you wish to just drug the population of the world into forgetting the extreme inequality and unfairness between people by telling them to be happy regardless?
What is this going to accomplish? But many more generations of suppressed anger and resentment and envy? What is this going to do, without equality and justice, apart from enclose explosive emotion in a tight cage?
You must not forget that outside of where you live, your approach to saving the world will be mocked and laughed at. People who live in warzones, or scratch food from bare ground will simply ignore you, or at worst attack you for your arrogance and ignorance. These people do not want to embrace you, and be happy, they want to wake up tomorrow, they want to get through the next week without losing another child. They want to eat.
You see this is where equality, something we have NEVER had, can allow these people, can allow PEOPLE, to stop fighting for life, or fighting for a better life, or fighting for something they feel they deserve, that they see others experiancing, that they cant have.
Its all very well to say 'tolerate Islam, tolerate suffering and pain, lets all tolerate the world' but the world wont tolerate you. The world, the other people not living in your extreme, they wont tolerate this inequality.
You know, I believe it likely that one day, maybe soon, all the tired and hungry and war shocked and angry and dissilusioned peoples of this world will stop fighting each other, and turn around and attack the developed world. With no fear of death, and no aim other than pulling it down and wreaking their fury. And as you sit there, in your ultra rich nation, preaching tolerance and joy, it will serve only inspire one of the longest lasting lessons ever recorded in human history.
And then, maybe words like mine will come to peoples minds. Once the rubble cools, the destruction is wrought, the death is over, the aftershocks, mentally and socially set in, perhaps equality and justice will be first in peoples minds, perhaps, as they look for something to eat, they will share their meager rations with their friends and fellow human beings, and stare down at their hands, passing bread from one hungry individual to another, among the ruins of the world that did not share, and be inspired.
Perhaps an open eyed attempt at creating a way of living together on the same planet, remembering the misery and suffering that for so long went on unchanged, not denying it, accepting its sorrowful lessons, and swearing and promising to ourselves and our world never to let it happen again.
I would hope we could do it now, but as I gaze throughout what I know of human history, I know it is not our way. The lesson will come, this I fear, much will be lost and destroyed. And at the end of it all, 10,000 years after the first known farms and settlements appeared, we still will be no closer to equality and justice and freedom.
But yes, you are right, I would be much, much happier banishing these thoughts from my mind, denying the outcomes my knowledge and thinking present before me. But then I would be denying my self, my world, my species and this existance the small attempts of one man to do a little to try to alter their outcomes. And that is something I cannot do.
Equality, it is where we can, right now, begin to actually and realistically strive towards our greatest dreams.
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 16, 2006 02:03 PMeventhorizon,
I don't see happiness as mind numbing narcotic but as a medicine that sets us free. Free from being a mindless consumer or a terrified warmonger or any other human cancer I can think of.
I also don't agree with you about Islam, I think it is the relentless conflict and oppression that are the problem and that muslims are as capable of producing a tolerant society as anyone.
I may not agree with some of your opinions but I don't doubt the purity of your intentions and I hope we do get the utopia you want.
Posted by: Dan at March 16, 2006 03:01 PMIf we are looking for paths to world salvation I see two directions we could take.
One of the defining elements of modern cognitive evolution is the logical shift away from a reliance on binary solutions towards a more holistic understanding of complexity. The world is exceedingly, unimaginably complex and dynamic. There are no binary propositions that can stand against such a scale. Many many different tracks are moving simultaneously, crossing and interacting, some in adaptive directions and others in maladaptive directions. All of them are interconnected and iterative. Peak Oil scares induce more development of alternative fuels. Unpopular wars raise civil unrest and resentment towards callous leaders sending our kids off to die. Technological adavancements funded by corporate dollars provide tools to script kiddies and privacy advocates. The net result of these will not be Utopia or Dystopia, Revelation or Apocalypse, but rather a vast dynamism reflecting the constant interplay of creation and destruction. I don't think anyone can say reliably what the outcome will be. All we can do is nudge along and support the currents and trends we feel are positive. Facts and action are far more important the alarmism and fear.
Posted by: lvx23 at March 17, 2006 12:42 AMI agree with you lvx23, I was wrong about that. It was a model, a metaphor and like all models and metaphors it doesn't match the thing it attempts to describe. My bad for getting caught up in my own bs.
Posted by: Dan at March 17, 2006 03:07 AMGreat recapitulation there, Chris.
Namaste !
I've never posted here but I've been lurking for awhile. What my question to all of you is, especially eventhorizon if you're still there, is how do you contrast action with the constant feeling of being at the will of forces? In looking at my own progress intellectually, I've basically just developed increasingly complex systems to deal with the world. The more complex the systems get, the more I realize how I'm a part of it, and the more I realize how prone to error my own systems are. Wikipedia is both liberating and depressing, seeing the conflict about basic ideas that I took for granted (ethics, epistemology) among incredibly intelligent people!
I want to believe that I make my own reality but absolutely everything in academia seems points away from that. I'm only a freshman in college, I readily admit I have alot to learn, but that nagging feeling that everything is determined in a causal fashion is very convincing. I attend Cal Poly San Luis Obispo and I try to discuss these sort of things (philosophies in this thread) with friends, but instead I am ostracized, told to grow up, 'get real,' etc. The more I hear it, from both peers and even heroes (such as Frank Zappa) the more I question these principles you guys stand for and I so wish I could.
I'd like to apply myself towards 'the cause,' whatever it is, but actually believing the type of things eventhorizon preaches, the philosophy I've come to espouse as well, is incredibly alienating. I'll admit it, I do feel like I'm better than my peers, I see them as slaves to happiness and hollow and deceptive philosophies. At the same time, I'm just as human and disgusting as they are, and I am painfully self-aware of it. I am a lazy fuck. I smoke for the sake of pleasure far too often. I try to practice compassion but am often caught up in power and control games. Lately I've been thinking about deciding to abandon it all, and join the ranks of those who decide that their self and happiness is all they have. The viewpoints that I share with all (or atleast some) of you are alienating where I am. They alienate me from my family, my friends, and possible friends. They alienate me from myself! (and I say that w/the knowledge that a consistent 'self' is a ridiculous concept)
I firmly believe that I am intelligent and that I could offer something to 'the cause.' However, at the moment I'm dealing with what I think is the onset of schizophrenia. Everything carries a personal relevance, absolutely everything is some indicator of a great truth to me right now. I think it comes from awareness of my own forms of representation as they break down? (just finished Kant) Things have a more vivid quality, it's like a low dose trip, 24/7. I also have to deal with the fact that my older brother died two years ago chasing these same ideals, well, atleast trying to live with them. He was absurdly brilliant, that kind of genius that is freakish. I say that not to put him on a pedestal but because its true, it was nothing short of raw, efficient genius, the type that creates Einsteins or folks like Cliffard Pickover. Of course, it also created problems for him socially, he was always 'different,' maybe even slightly autistic. (which in no way takes away from his freakish genius) I'm beginning to think that it had alot to do with his onset of schizophrenia as well, though the large amount of psychedelic use couldn't have helped.
Sorry I got off on a tangent there, but I felt it was important to my situation. Ok, so here I am, on the same path my brother was on. I sampled shrooms senior year and it "changed my life." I suddenly thought of my brother not as a fool but as someone who was had seen the same things I was beginning to. Back to where I am now, 13 trips later, and more confused than ever, but at the same time more aware than ever. I've made progress, but its only opened up more uncertainty and more questions. I feel like there's so much complexity that I haven't got a fighting chance in making ground. So here's where your advice might come in.
How do I live for these values without LIVING the values, being aware of them all the time, because at the moment I'm headed for insanity or death. Please don't tell me to seek a therapist, I will not trust him and I will see him as a controlling force. And actually, in some ways I think this mental illness (if it is one, I've had 4 trips this quarter, have been smoking too much, and experimented a tiny bit with adderall which contributed to my first blatantly psychotic moment the day after I had taken it) could be a blessing if I learn to deal with it. Its certainly something that has from stemmed from intelligence, which I say not in the 'i know more than you in life' way, but in the 'I can calculate things fast, I am good with calculus and writing and symbols' way. I still hope that there is some purpose I can fill, because I do think my mind could be a potential asset.
To wrap it up, based on my situation, one where I am very paranoid of vague forces and causality, and one where I long for a more stable life, how can I contribute without having to constantly question my integrity, which will always be faulty? Advice would be most welcome, and I apologize if this seems like a cry for attention. (which it probably is on some psychological level that I CAN'T be aware of...)
PS if anyone would like to talk about general things my aol SN is brianhart9102, would be nice to keep in touch with people who share similar views to stay sane...
Posted by: Brian at March 17, 2006 10:19 PMThe sanity of one is anothers madness.
I dont really know how to respond to your post, I empathise with you in so many ways, in every way. I'll do what iv always done I guess and just write what comes to mind that I feel is fitting to be written down.
There was a discussion not long ago on this site regarding hyper-perception. I vehemenantly held the position that hyper-perception was principly defined at conception, that hyper perception, althought possibly augmented in life by desire and action, was ultimatly a life long 'affliction or blessing' that determined an individuals formulation of personal conclusion, and determined their approach to, and actions within, life.
Chris, LVX23, put forward the arguement that hyper-perception was to be aimed for and achieved through numerous and various activities and conditioning, to allow one to achive some kind of revelation of various degrees of power/strength/importance/whatever.
I put forward the arguement that hyper-perception was infact a life long attribute of varying degrees within individuals, and that events and experiance of varying degrees, even the most mundane, combined with and individuals hyper-perception, would determine the degree and validity and generality and absoluteness and fundementallity of their revelations.
Now forgive me for being ignorant, and perhaps vulgar and self serving, and I wish in no way to offend, but I will only say where my train of thought takes me.
Regarding your brother, his Genius, and his Autism, it is my understanding that Autism is this hyper-perception at an advanced level.
I have heard only one analogy that springs to immediate mind of Autism, and that is that the majority of humanity see a tree, whereas those with Autism see a million leaves.
Now I dont know what purpose my words thus far serve, I myself and others around me would claim 'mental masturbation', and so be it. My mind lead me here.
You claim that my philosophy, and that which you preach / wish to preach, breeds alienation.
I could not agree more. I have never lost a relative of my immediate family. Inspired by your post, and for the only time only, for those who wish to know, and inspite of those who will use it against me, and for all the self torment, and for all that I have and will write, and for the first and only time in public I will tell you a bit about me. I have not left my house in three years, apart from in the last year to visit once a month my doctor who is serving as my psychologist. I am 22, as of yesterday the 17th. My doctor tells me I have 'severe social anxiety'. Not paranoia nor schizophrenia of which believe me I have found within myself symptoms of both. I do not go out, ever. I do not speak to anyone, anywhere. I surround myself with history and philosophy, I currently hide away in what someone online (the only person I have 'spoken' to in 3 years) recently described as both 'my box' and my 'defence mechanism'. And you know why?
Why is simple, I look people in the eye and I see not only straight to their heart, their core, past all the wordly bullshit to another frightened, lonely, lost indivdual mind in the expanse of space and time, but also another individual mind like mine who can see through all my bullshit and masks and straight to the very core of my being.
I see anger, resenment, desire, hope, joy, determinism, the will to abuse and manipulate and gain, the fear of death, the rejection of spirituality, the comfort in the self, the fear and anguish of the self, I see lies that enable them to prevent themselves being me. I see within them the shield of familly and friends and comfortable housing against the immensity and fearful truth of life, death. This floods my mind and occupies my thought each and every time I stand before another. And each and every day of my life I see 'normal' things, I will watch my curtain and imagine electrons and atoms, and quarks and forces, and their arrangements. And I will wonder at their presence, and I will question there presence. And it serves to take my mind of my existance. My existance, formed by my own decisions and mind, and the world around me. The irony of my life is that whilst 'drug abuse' of ecstasy and pot etc, and once heroin (the descent into relaxation beyond beleif), and all the things my friends showed me while I found comfort in them, that I desired to experiance, that I chose to 'do', moulded my mind into observant machine that it is, that I experiance myself as, that it was my recent entry to the usage of psychadelics, of one year ago, after years of 'being free' from the influence of 'other drugs' that inspired me to seek 'help'. And the irony here? I sought 'help' not for me, but for those around me whos lives I still exert some kind of influence over. But I find myself being pulled into the facade, the immense falsity, the mask of life that has absolutly nothing to do with anything beyond any individual. But for as long as I can remember I have been fixated and obsessed with 'space' and 'god'. My name, my 'tag' eventhorizen is my life in a word. So speaketh the names of many others who chose their own title. Even in the deepest comfort of my own mind I am caught between thinking I alone approach the almighty and shall 'know it all', and at the same time wishing to know everything there ever has been known. Psychotic actions? 3 times I have been put in police cells for lashing out against my own father, who I love more dearly than any individual that has ever walked this Earth.
"how do you contrast action with the constant feeling of being at the will of forces?"
You sir, think too much. One of my friends told me thus, one night listening to inspiring techno in the midst of a stupid concontion of pure MDMA, alcohol, and a weeks wages worth of tablet form 'E' and amphetamines. Descending into the oblivion of a 'bad trip' he looked over to me and said 'You think too much'.
I wrestle with this question every minute of every day of my existance.
What action can there be?
Action...
Do you or I or anyone that has ever, will ever, or does currently live know the 'button to press' that radiates outwards and produces everything everyone has ever wanted? Do you not feel (and its a bit of joke here at FutureHi) my anger? At my ineptitude?
BUT, how far do you have to look to find those foundations that are worth holding onto? And preaching?
When you take your knowledge of 'everything', you will realise you are one of many, you are a part of everything. If you are hyper-perceptive you will realise and understand that your life, your existance will make ripples.
How far can you follow them? Where do they go? What ripples influence you? You understand, deep inside you, that once you are gone your life will resonate onwards. How much time you have, you can never know. Are YOU right in your judgement, you can never know. What ripples will beat against you and what will there influence be upon you, you can never know. But you have a physical mechanism for interaction at your command for a length of time. What you do with it, inspite of everything else, is up to you.
There can be no more worse a witness or harsh a judge than the consciounce that resides within every man.
These academia that stand before you. Look them in the eye. Learn from your encounters with them. There is more falsity in this life than there was ever truth. This does not have to be debated, only witnessed.
And I guess, these are my only words of inspiration to you. Watch and think and listen and think and learn and think.
You have a life, and one day, barring the nanotech singularity I have deep scepticism for, you will no longer be here in body, perhaps mind. What then? READ. There is possibly an infinate future of all eventualities that can be presented before all those whos lives lie ahead of today. God or no God your life can resonate forever.
But first you must witness and learn from today and yesterday, in all and every way possible to you. These people who shun you, let them shun you. Open your eyes and mind to eternity, and look down from above upon yourself as the ripple whos magnitude and intensity has yet to be finalised.
Wake up tomorrow and spread your thoughts and ideas and conclusions around, and I will be here, God willing, to witness them and reciprocate. Above all, instead of nothing, WRITE.
I am not much of a 'net speaker' so I have no idea how to 'AOL' you. But if you have MSN messanger on your computer, I am 'ieventhorizeni@hotmail.com' or gail@fraserg.fslife.co.uk
Posted by: eventhorizen at March 18, 2006 05:23 PMheh, well I meant my aol screen name (SN) is brianhart9102, so if you had aol instant messenger you would be able to message me. I downloaded a program that allows me to be on aol/msn at the same time, tried adding you as a contact but it doesn't show you as online, and hasn't all day, unless its just not working, which is more likely. In response to your post all I can say is I related to it so much that it almost scares me, and that I thank you for the words of encouragement.
Posted by: Brian at March 18, 2006 07:23 PMRest assured, I have been laughing, dancing and making music with hundreds of children every week, as a result of your inspiration. Keep on keepin' on, brother. We cannot fail.
Posted by: Tamara at March 19, 2006 02:15 AMRest assured, I have been laughing, dancing and making music with hundreds of children every week, as a result of your inspiration. Keep on keepin' on, brother. We cannot fail.
Posted by: Tamara at March 19, 2006 02:16 AMWorrying is a waste of the precious time given to us and accomplishes nothing. Let us not despair or become fatalistic in our thinking. Instead, let us seek answers, and in doing so find the truth - lest the fear of a cataclysm paralize our mental energy. Putting our words on 'paper' for other to read, is self validating and that's OK, as long as it's not self serving only. We all seem to be seekers here. This seems wonderful to me. A little venting is good for us. At the same time we should face the fact that ranting righeous indignation (anger is dangerous) are also fun, it feels good to do, and as such, can become an addiction. Beware = Be-aware of this possibility. What can be done about our situation? We do the best we can. Try to act (behave) like the person we wish we were and that is who we'll be. We would do well to remember that the Universe, with one very tiny, nay, miniscule exception is composed of others. So, take good care of yourself, but take good care of and help others much more because there are so many more of them than there is of you. What I'm so awkwardly trying to say is: try to serve others more than yourself. Try to get beyond making subjective judgement calls as to whether anything good or bad (positive/negative?). We are here to learn from both and must experience both in order to fulfill our purpose which is to evolve (the answer to: "Why are we here?") And I've found that a lot of the time the bad things drive lessons home deeper than good things. It's a fascinating (sp?) ride and death will be definitely be a trip! Cultivate awe and reverence for life and let yourself be thankful that you are a part of it, no matter how much pain you may be feeling. Khalil Gibran said; "The deeper pain carves into our soul, the more joy it can contain." Seems sensible to me. What should we do? This is what the greatest among us have said we should do:
Thousands of years ago Zoroaster said:
Be good, be kind, be humane and charitable, love your fellows, console the afflicted, pardon those who have done you wrong.
Buddha said:
In dealing with others, one should do what he would have done to him.
Mohammed said:
Let none of you treat his brothers in a way he himself would dislike being treated.
Confucius said:
Do not do to others that which you would not they do to you.
Jesus said:
All things whatsoever ye would that men do unto you, do you even unto them.
Krishna said:
The rule is to do the things of others, as you would do by your own.
And in the Torah, the law of Moses, we read:
Do only to another man what you would that he do unto you.
Different men, different times. It seems that "time" as well as "the times we are in right now" don't really matter (punny) in terms of "What should I do?". The answer is the same.
Thinking that there are things going on that we have no control of is a lazy person's cop out.in my opinion. I think we get some sort of satisfaction in feeling victimized because it releases us from having to go to the trouble of taking the responsibility for ourselves. And it's so hard to fight against because of the nature of the human beast. The nature of the beast is to take the path of least resistance and the path of least resistence is to do nothing, thus we shift the responsibility away from ourselves. So I feel that the first step is to admit that were are ultimately and totally responsible for ourselves...everything about ourselves. Of course, this implies work, so it's might be helpful to think of 'work' as a good thing rather than something we like taking a vacation from. To work is to live. We like it when things work, don't we? Don't we feel good when things work out? Also set aside a period of time for yourself every week in which you do Nothing. ACTIVELY do Nothing. Just as it is the empty spaces between words and notes of music and between the spokes of a wheel that make these things function, so it is for us. Along with taking responsibility for ourselves comes Loving ourselves with all the faults we 'imagine' we have and Loving others with all the faults we 'imagine' thay have. Then we learn to control our 'imaginings'. We manifest the reality of our own choosing every moment so we need to learn and practice how to control our own minds, our own thinking,and we have all the help we need in our instincts (our spirit) which tells us what is right and what is wrong for us. Learn to pay attention to that guidance. And I will leave you fine folks with two final thoughts: "Humor heals." and "We are all bozos on this bus."
I've written these things hoping that one of them may be helpful to someone.
We do the best we can.