COOL...

Nice! Virgin is my favorite airliner. I flew from London to Joburg on Virgin air... it was a 12 hour flight but they had excellent spacious seats... gameboys embedded into the seat that worked as a map for viewing the plane's position, or to watch tv, or they popped out and you could play mario brothers. I look forward to a trip to space on their service. :-)

peace,
core

What is the environmental impact of each space flight?
And why is it 'cool' that a bunch of rich folks get to experience a few minutes of zero g whilst the rest of the mud-bound proles look up in wonder at the stars?

If these people have $200,000 going spare why not do some good with it.

whilst Adept_Nuls' point should be recognised (assuming he's reffering to third world poverty etc), perhaps he/she should realise that progress has always been made inspite of other ongoing issues, like for instance the industrial revolution or the space race, both of which changed the world as a whole dramatically for the better whilst people were suffering. Cynics of the exploration of space in any form will always be able to suggest different ways to spend the money. In any case Virgin is a plc as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong) so its up to the shareholders how they invest thier money which is surely better than the staggering amounts of money tax payers have to pay with state funded projects.

Space travel, life extension, cybernetic augmentation and genetic intervention will never be within reach of those who earn under $500,000 a year. Transhumanism will remain an exclusive luxury reserved only for the wealthy, just like private jets and Maybach cars are today. The way things are going with our train wreck of an administration and perpetuation of obsolete economic policies, everything you buy in 2030 will be luxuries for the rich. Homes, cars, groceries, computers, household items, entertainment, EVERYTHING.

If Dumbya gets his way, America's middle class is finished.

George W. Bush is Shameless.

http://fixco1.com/

Read and weep. This is what the Robber Barons have in store for YOU, America!

Dear ADBastone,

I'm not disagreeing with you in that the current Cabal (i.e BushCo) is definitely trying to install a feudal tyranny. I would even go so far as to say they are in fact "Death eaters" just like those in Harry Potter. I highly suggest you read Chris Arkenberg's highly insightful piece, Archons and War Pigs. The end game is in play, and an attempted checkmate is near.

However, they are not going to win, and their attempted checkmate is going to backfire. All the signs are here. The reason we are seeing a rapid acceleration of police state tyranny at home and a global imperium abroad is because they are scared shitless of the global shift in consciousness that is currently taking place. This is not just some "new age" crap, but an actual global brain that is emerging via the rapid feedback loop creating by hundreds of millions of minds all networking via the internet. We are on the verge of a global and decentralized shift away from central power hierarchies and towards something entirely different.

Bottom line is this - centralized hierarchies cannot compete against decentralized networks. This basic fundamental principle has been proven time and time again - weather it be in the how economies work (i.e. west vs USSR), or warfare (i.e. Vietnam vs. US, or Iraqi insurgent vs. US). They can try all they want to instill fear and loathing among the population, rob them of their economic status, etc., etc, but in the end they can no longer maintain total control. I know it sounds silly, but Princess Leia (i.e. George Lucas) had it right all along - "The more they tighten their grip, the more star systems will slip through their fingers".

ADBastone, please cheer up, its that time of year, and a new year is upon us, and many, MANY things are possible between now and then. Just remember the future is not written yet.

Oh, and as for the millionairs being the only ones who can afford it - this is plain wrong... sorry. All of these technologies will become extremely cheap very rapidly via nanotech and hyper-competition.

Anyway, nanobots remain a pipe dream for the forseeable future.

I doubt that there ever will be nanobots patching us up and keeping us healthy forever, at least not in our lifetimes. That's another side-effect of the rampant Kurzweilian techno-optimism displayed here.

The best and brightest of scientists and enlightened individuals, from what I've read on blogs and scientific papers, are not buying Kurzweil's fantastic claims. Kurzweil has made himself the laughing stock of the web with the publication of his latest book. He's considered a bit of a joke by many, many bright people.

ADBastone,

Normally I am way too busy to be actively responding to comments. Luckily I'm on holiday, and have some extra time to respond.

From what I've read of your comments so far, you make strong, even absolute statements of opinion with little or no supporting argument, reference or evidence. Because of that I hesitate to respond because when that is the case, the person usually has no interest in actual debate of the facts.

That being said if you want someone like myself to have a real conversation with you then I suggest re-submitting your comments with more supporting arguments, factual information and references. For example, just saynig that people, even serious scientists, think Kurzweil is a joke, is a meaningless comment. Who are these "bright" people? What *specificaly* are their refutations? As for "doubting thomases", the same can be said of every visionary thinker and scientist of any age. Copernicus? Galileo? Kepler? Einstien? Niels Bohr? All of them were rediculed during their heydey, and in some cases incarcerated! Most "respectable" engineers and scientist in 1902 believed heavier than air travel was impossible... not improbably, impossible. Yet, in 1903 the wright brothers proved them all wrong. In 1959, a survey of respectable scientist believed that a man landing on the moon would not happen within the next 100 years. It happened in less than 10.

As for nanotechnology, the arguments between Drexler vs. Smalley, were always won by Drexler.

Finally, there are amazing engineering possibilities possible without assembler nanotech. The Space Elevator is one perfect example. Mass produced carbon nanotubes, which are now coming to fore will utterly change the world in the next 10 years - which *is* the forseable future.

Adept_Nuts: I'm weighing-in a bit late on this line of comments, but, in answer to your comment: *NEW* stuff is oftentimes (at least up to now, and for the near-term future, anyway...) initally **expensive** for various reasons: Entrepreneur/investors want to recoup their (oftentime considerable) investment-costs, the technology involved is itself (**initially**) pricey, and there can be other reasons that factor-in as well. Rich "early-adopters", however, ***pave the way*** for cheap-to-almost-FREE developments soon-on later. Automobiles were once toys of the rich-&-famous---but didn't remain so for long...Branson's push will also **incentivize*** entrepreneurs to search for **alternative** (i.e., cheaper) means to get the same job(s) done---such as, oh, say, nano-tube-based **space elevators**. So one should be FOR (and OPTIMISTIC ABOUT) virtually *ANYTHING* (any techno-economic development) that gets us closer the getting us the hell out of this 4000-mile gravity-well (i.e., the surface of Earth).

Pretty soon-on, it should be cheap, eventually maybe little more that the equivalent of pocket-change to take a ship (or, more likely, an elevator) into Earth orbit and **beyond**...

Rich folks, while oftentimes being feudalistic fascist snob/assholes, are also the ones that finance the curve-development from expensive to dirt cheap. Gotta love 'em (or at least pragmatically tolerate 'em)!!

Happy New Year to all...!!!

ADBatstone: Paul has said--eloquently, as usual--most of what needs to be said in reply to you. However, please consider the following. Wiley Interscience, a subdivision that specializes in excellent scientific and/or engineering treatises, and who--if only for pragmatic, commercial reasons--is VERY CAREFUL of its reputation, and VERY CAREFUL how it's editors vet a proposed book, is the publisher of the only (so far) full-fledged treatise in Molecular Nanotech (or MNT), i.e., Drexler's very well-respected, and exhaustively in-depth treatise, *Nanosystems*. There, toward the end, Drexler briefly discusses the possibility of table-top and slightly larger generic nano-fabrication systems which can be made, at least in principle, available to more-or-less anyone/everyone. Furthermore, both nanosystems and Moravecian robots (and robotic *ensembles*) will be practical by 2010 (earliest) to 2035 (at the latest). James Albus, a devotee of Louis Kelso's ideas, as well as himself being an engineering-economist for the National Bureau of Standards, has published several proposals for a National Mutual Fund (Moravec mentions this in *Robot*, btw), which would allow all Americans (and something similar could be done in other countries) to share in the robotic and nanotech abundance. But we need to start demanding that these ideas & proposals be taken seriously. Something along the lines of what Albus (and Kelso himself) have proposed, within an otherwise classical-liberal social/political/jurisprudential framework, is, in my judgment, among the best hopes we have for instantiating this tech in a NON-feudalistic way. The power- and wealth-elite bastards, of course, don't want to entertain these notions, and they sure as hell don't want the *hoi poloi* (the rest of us...in their mind, anyway) to even be *aware* of these ideas & policy proposals, much less raise the issues, much (further) less have these entertained as ***serious & important*** political/policy proposals. But the genie is out of the bottle...

Paul is quite correct that the Internet is creating a Global Brian (2 different authors, Howard Bloom and Pete Russell, have written books with just this title & theme), a networked Mind that is getting **better-informed**, and more knowledgeable of alternatives ***all the time***. This trend is itself growing, also (super-)exponentially.

Persons who consider themselves part of the transhumanist (and, eventually, post-human[ist]) community have the responsibility, both individually & collectively, to do the best they can to see to it that ideas about **how** to optimally handle & instantiate robotics, nanotech, etc. are brought into this Global Mind, this Global Forum. Which is why I always urge my fellows here at FutureHi to read-up on all this stuff. We now have a window of about 5-15 years during which we can share ideas, beat the drums of liberty, liberalism, proposals such a Albus's, etc., etc., so that, when robotics and nanotech really start hitting the fan (as they're both on the very **verge** of doing so **already**), we can be prepared with proposed ways of discussing, handling, instantiating them for the good and prosperity of ***ALL***. Bucky was right: We are now faced with a choice between nothing less than or other than Eutopia or Oblivion.

As for Kurzweil (and I also highly recommend John Smart's stuff--see AccelerationWatch.com) and his stuff: It's now beginning to become apparent (and John Smart is the most articulate champion of this at the moment, btw), that we are, interestingly enough, in the midst of something that can best be described by the phrase Cosmic Development, or even *Meta*Cosmic Development. Life & Mind/Intelligence have a very integral, essential role to play in the futher evolutionary *development* of the MetaCosmos--the Multiverse and Beyond. And, echoing Paul, to say this is indeed **NOT** to spout mere 'New Age' babble, but is in fact at the very cutting-edge of thought (see, e.g., Gardner's *Biocosm* amongst other works...). ***Each of us*** (YOU, TOO, ADBATSTONE...!!!) has something that we can contribute to this MetaCosmic Evolutionary Developmental **Process**. Each & all of us are, quite literally, the **cutting-edge** of MetaCosmic evolution itself. Yeah, us, the naked ape so capable of killing its own...yeah, us, Shakespeare's "paragon"...yeah, interestingly enough ***US***. We may be the first, or the nth in a long-line of metacosmic development. But our role now, our actions, our thoughts, our communications, are crucial. True, the MetaCosmos is patient, infinitely so...if we fuck-up, and snuff-out, Nature will just start again elsewhere. Perhaps on a planet orbiting Tau Ceti, or Epsilon Bootes, or Alpha Centauri. Perhaps even in another galaxy or even an different, almost unimagineably distant, galactic cluster. But the metacosmic development will eventually succeed in turning the entire Multiverse, the entire MetaCosmos, into a fully-conscious, incredibly, more-or-less *unimagineably* (for us now) powerful MIND. THAT, dear ADBatstone, is "what's goin' on..."

Do what YOU can to shepard it, facillitate it. Do what YOU are uniquely suited & situated to do. Read-up. Find out what the hell the law is (a good start, as far as Taxation in America goes, btw, is losthorizons.com), found out about what proposals & ideas for dealing with a totally ***cybernated*** catallaxy are. Read Fred Hayek's magnificent 3-Vol. treatise Law, Legislation,& Liberty (recommended, btw, by Drexler in his book, *Engines...*; Eric is, apparently, more-or-less a Hayekian...); read-up on Louis Kelso's and James Albus' ideas for how to instantiate and deal-with total **cybernation**. Then give us your thoughts...write an article for Harper's or the Atlantic or Liberty or Reason...write your congresscritter and senator[critter]...let them and us hear you...

And cheer-up, Kid-O. The next 5-15 years may get a bit nasty here-&-there, but WE'RE GONNA WIN...

As Bob Pirsig says at the end of *Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance*:

WE'VE WON IT. THINGS ARE GOING TO GETTER BETTER NOW. YOU CAN SORT OF TELL THESE THINGS...

(WINK!!)

Happy '06 to all and to all a goodnight!

"both nanosystems and Moravecian robots (and robotic *ensembles*) will be practical by 2010 (earliest) to 2035 (at the latest)."

Wrong. There is no solid evidence whatsoever for nanoengineered entities or sophisticated robots to appear within this timescale, even with tech progress exponentially increasing.

Moravecian robots: 2055
Nanosystems: 2060
Humans start merging with technology: 2075
Space elevator: 2080
Bio-immortality: 2100
Utility fog: 2105
e-immortality (uploading): 2110

The way things are going at the moment, these dates are your best bet. The future WILL arrive, but not until after 2050. Anyone read "The Anti-Singularity" on www.jrmooneyham.com? That's the way things will most likely turn out. Instead of a "spike", the Singularity will be drawn out over a period of decades.