The upshot is that, while federal agents can come knocking if they decide it's worth their while (which, yeah, sucks ass), state agencies are still bound to the will of the electorate. It seems to me that even though the ruling sucks, it's still a fair interpretation of the Constitution which, IIRC, says that federal law always trumps state law.

you said:
I believe that all the states that we achieve on drugs can be experienced without them.

I just don't understand how this statement can be made. Can you eat a watermelon without actually eating one? Can you see the view from the top of the Empire State building without actually going there? (Don't run away from literality with ambiguous metaphors, the answer is 'no.') So how can one experience a particular neurotropic (endogenous ones aside) without introducing it into one's system?

you said:
Some of the most consistent highest states of samadhi, bliss, revelation and rapture I have experienced I have done so without drugs.

Maybe so, but don't dismiss the fact that if you have taken drugs in the past you were probably altered permanently (chemically, psychologically, spiritually, biologically), possibly granting greater or more direct access to 'higher' dimensions.

You're right, drugs are not the end-all answer to every question, relationships are. Just as we breath, eat, communicate and mate, it makes perfect sense that psychic, mystical, religious and cosmic dimensions would be manifested through some type of apparent communion, ie: the sacrament.
-Evan

Evan, you miss my point. Even if you never taste a watermelon again, or have never tasted one before, you can still derive all the satisfaction possible without it. The watermelon was never the "it" of the experience, only the means. All else is attachment. There is a big difference between form and substance. For example, I feel really good when I watch star wars - it puts me into a kind of warm and unconditional love state. Do I ultimately need Star Wars to experience that same degree of pleasure, bliss and enjoyment? No. Same goes for relationships. People suffer after the breakup of a relationship, because they equate all the positive feelings of love and happiness with the person themselves, when it was always inside of them to begin with. Same goes for our relationship with drugs.

As for the 'permanently altered' thing, this is simply not the case. There are countless numbers of people who have achieved tremendous states of consiousness without drugs. Of course most of these people are in the east. There are many stories of eastern adepts of one kind or another taking LSD given to them by travelling westerners. They often remarked they had no effect from on them beyond what they were already experiencing. They were already high.

In this light then, drugs are useful in that they can help the western mind deprogram itself from its otherwise overly-programmed mindset.

Chris, I may be mistaken, but it has been my understanding that the original intent of the Constitution was state law always trump federal law, except in cases of national defense and emergency, and some types of interstate commerce. I believe it was the Civil War under Lincoln, where a shift towards Federalism took place in order to justify going to war with the South.

Thomas Jefferson, as one of the chief architects of the Constitution, said the intent of laws written within the Constitional framework were to be derived from individual rights, which in turn influence city and county law, then state law, and fnally reflected at the federal level.

All processes of consciousness are drug "states" as these processes are chemically mediated metabolic systems. The sensory systems like visual purple enzymes capturing photons in the retina, or sounds being "captured" by the hearing mechanism. There are 25+ or more identified sensory sytems...plus
all the brain activity and all the outgoing motor
moving into the environment. All features of experiencing are sensory/motor/brain/CNS Drugs being used. DnA is a "drug". The electro-magnetic shape of a hormone docking with a receptor site is a drug event...your whole body is a chemical factory...outside drugs only work/play because they mimic endogenous dope in the brain...

Kudus to you, Paul, for putting it all in the right perspective!

Let's not forget that we are each and all of us carrying DMT in our brains at all times! Unfortunately, the technique for activating it at will has not yet been discovered (that I know of).

I personally view all 'drugs' as 'doors of perception:' they make for easy access into the Omniversal Eternity which is around and within us at all times -- the Kingdom of Heaven even now in our midst. But the threshold can be breached in other ways. Hopefully nanotech will be able to provide nanite or foglet utilities that can infiltrate our neurochemsitry and rewire it so that immediate access is granted into the implicate Dreamtime just beyond (or perhaps under) the reach of our skin.

The Infinite is everywhere -- it's Omniversal -- just waiting to be tapped.

--Upwinger

Upwinger wrote: Unfortunately, the technique for activating it at will has not yet been discovered...

In the unfortunately short-lived Psychedelic Monographs & Essays, Rick Strassman pubished an article on endogenous DMT production, suggesting that certain harmonic resonance vocalisations, as in those used by monks to chant and aum, could induce pineal metabolism of melatonin into DMT.

Paul, you might be right but, of course, we are at war so anything goes.

Paul, in all my explorations I only encountered one case where the ascetic or 'guru' wasn't affected by a hallucinogen which was Ram Das' account, which was debunked by a first-hand witness. I believe it was Krishna Das who worked for that same guru on his property for 15 years and wrote mcuh about what he saw transpire there. That guy (his name eludes now) had secret corridors between rooms so he could appear behind locked doors and performed other 'tricks'. When Alpert gave him the lsd tablets he palmed them instead of eating them, then crushed them up and put them in ash which he later had two other western visitors eat some of as they left, which, as Indian ritual dictates is supposed to put them in an exalted state. Unknowing of the acid, the two most probably credited the master's holiness to their subsequent psychedelic trip down the mountain.

Now let me ask you, if one has really developed their spiritual state, would not they also have heightened senses as do many who utilize entheogens? Wouldn't they be more, not less, aware of subtle details and nuances in taste, color, pattern, touch, emotion etc? That is why it made no sense that someone with any level of enlightenment would not feel any effects of such a mystically charged and scientifically significant drug like lsd. It wasn't cause he was already so 'high' that the acid had no noticable effect (as if all this is one simple ladder we all climb instead of a trillion interweaving helical dynamics), he just simply lied.

On the contrary, the most honestly advanced mystics I have found in story who were givin entheogens have completely affirmed their tremendous potential for use as a spiritual tool. All seekers of the divine have tools, Paul, whether it is a book, a cane, a chillum, a pendant, or the ten thousand objects held by Shiva's hands. To assume that true enlightenment occurs without external factors, with only one's 'self' and no form of aid or partnership, sounds basically like pure ego to me.

I agree that drugs can be very useful for deconditioning, but there are innumerable first-hand accounts of them also enabling the most supreme states of consciousness and perspective and union. Perhaps a couple decades of isolation will lead one to cloister-monk-madness or cave-sadhu-satori which indeed might be a splendid and overwhelming activation of endogenous dmt and opiates, but experiencing similar modes of entheogenesis while staying involved in the world we all share may be more challanging but I tend to think more enlightening.

i don't mean to be argumentative but i just don't think consciousness can be rated on a 1 to 10 scale. There are similarities in experiences but even if a work of literature elevated you to similar feeling of that of watching Star Wars, Star Wars would still be artistic feat with it's own, incomparable signature.
It's like saying Vitamin A, vitamin E and sit-ups are all healthy so there all the same, which ignores the separate properties and needs for each.
I guess I starting to rant so I'll stop for now.

Evan, your comments read at times like you are condecending or making comments on my character. I'm not sure, so that uncertaintly makes it difficult to respond. I'm enjoying my life and sometimes I enjoy sharing my experiences and knoweldge with others. You are welcome to read what I say, ignore it, or disagree with it. I derive no satisfaction in "being right" or "proving others wrong". I cannot explain my opinion better than I have. It was written in the spirit of sharing. If it inspires you, great. If you disagree with it, then hopefully you will at some point find something here or elsewhere that does resonate with your own inner truth. Would you want it any other way?

very interesting post and the subsequent discussion is of equal caliber. I feel there is truth in both Paul and Evan's arguments. Although my heart wants to believe Paul's angle, especially with the new draconian tightening mentioned in the main post, I just don't have the command of my own processes yet to acheive expanded states without introduing destabilising agents, but maybe Paul does? I say good for him, and I hope someday to learn that kind of control.

I must read that Strassman article you suggested Lvx23.

Evan --

I had no idea that Neem Karoli Baba (Maharajji) was such a trickster! But his humanitarian efforts were the real deal.

Quote: "if one has really developed their spiritual state, would not they also have heightened senses as do many who utilize entheogens" -- in my opinion, Yes. Just because Maharajji may not have been what so many people thought he was, doesnt mean that real spiritual masters are not "more, not less, aware of subtle details and nuances in taste, color, pattern, touch, emotion etc."

There are examples opposite to that of Maharajji. For example, Terence McKenna brought DMT to Tibetan monks. They told him that they had indeed been 'there' before, and that 'this was as far as you can go' without being dead. They admitted that DMT took them 'there' the same as exalted states of meditation did.

Sri Ramakrishna was an inveterate pot-smoker, and first-hand reports sometimes allude to the use of other 'drugs' on his part. Even the deepest investigation into him and his life reveal no trickery whatsoever. He was one of the most enlightened men ever to live and he had a fondness for the ganja. He saw no descrepancy there, so why should we?

"All seekers of the divine have tools..." I think you're right about MOST cases, but probably not all. "To assume that true enlightenment occurs without external factors, with only one's 'self' and no form of aid or partnership, sounds basically like pure ego to me." -- I completely disagree with you there. These 'tools' are keys by which we strive to unlock the door. But the door itself was never locked to begin with. Its always there for whoever would seek it. The 'tools' are basically placebos -- enabling and emboldening us to take the plunge. And these tools are our way of "staying involved in the world" -- and I agree with you that they are marvelous for that reason. But I also side with Paul in that I think it is a mistake to conflate the 'key' with the horizon the doorway opens upon.

I personally am still holding out for an integration of nanotech and neurobiology. There would no longer be a need for solitary monks or psychnauts to make the journey in the dark. An entire commune could enter the Dreamtime as a group and explore the peaks and abysms of Eternity with a fully integrated body mind and soul.

--Upwinger

I'm not surprised by that decision (to make medical marijuana a Federal "crime" that over-rules states' rights)--I'm saddened, but not surprised--what with the T.S.O.G. running rampant over the Constitution.

I'm with Bill Hicks on this one, when he said "Doesn't making things that grow naturally upon the earth, against the law, I don't know, seem a little...un-natural?"

I'm between Evan's and Paul's points of view as well--I think drugs can "cleanse the doors of perception" (or "squeegee your third eye") much faster than meditation or yoga--therefore short-cutting someone's route to elevated states of being. At the same time--I think eventually you reach the limits of the drug experience and can't seem to go "furthur"--hence Ken Kesey advocated "graduating from acid" in 1966..and others have followed suit since--advocating for "natural" means of finding psychedelic states of mind.

On the other hand, McKenna always was for psilocybin--saying he thought it provided a richer experience than yoga...and R.A.W. thought that people who hadn't tripped in a while always forgot the richness of an LSD trip. Some people seem to lack the discipline for extended periods of meditation/yoga and almost need psychedelics to attain enlightenment.

But, as always..to each his/her own.

hi all. i was also saddened by the decision. but, and i am cetainly no lawyer, i have been reading about the decision and some seem to indicate that really this was not about pot very much and really there are some "positive" (note quotes) results that might relate. for example (from a post op. ed.):

"But the true importance of Raich has nothing to do with drugs; it relates rather to the balance of power between the federal government and the states. The government's crusade against medical marijuana is a misguided use of anti-drug resources; that doesn't mean it's unconstitutional. A Supreme Court decision disallowing federal authority in this area would have been a disaster in areas ranging from civil rights enforcement to environmental protection."

also, many indicated, including california's attorney general and some in the bush admin that there would be little if any change in terms of prosecutions, since almost all drug offenses are prosecuted at the state and county level.

believe me, i would love to see drugs decriminalized as much as anyone, and am skeptical about the federal government, but in our current state of development, i would hate to see some other standards weakened.

iow, and we will have to see what comes of it, this may not be as bad in the long term as we think. given the incredible number of users or people okay with some level of drug use in this country i still honestly believe it is only matter of time before the scale tips.

...trying to find a brightER side...

You're right, Paul. Union-State law trumps Federal Law, except where interstate commerce is concerned. And the Commerce Clause has already, for many years now. been stretched and distorted so much as to make Jefferson & Madison (among others) roll-over in there graves, puking all the way (metaphorically anyway...). Check out, for various reasons (you'll see what I mean when you do so...), Pete Hendrickson's website, www.LostHorizons.com, as he has posted an excellent comment on the Supreme Court's latest Constitutional-jurisprudential fuck-up. See also Randy Barnett's excellent treatise (soon out in pb), *Restoring the Lost Constitution: The Presumption of Liberty* (Princeton U Press). Here's an excerpt from Pete's losthorizons website:

Due to the United States Supreme Court's recent demonstration, in Gonzales v. Raich, of its willingness to utterly defy logic-- and disregard the clearly-stated intent of the Framers-- in service to the boundless ambitions of Congress, I am proposing the following amendment to the United States Constitution:

"The power of Congress to regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes shall be exercised solely for the purpose and to the effect of ensuring that such commerce is unhindered and unburdened, other than by such tariffs on foreign imports as are elsewhere provided for herein."

This amendment actually just spells out the Framer's intent in creating the commerce clause in the first place, but it has become obvious that this sort of emphasis is necessary. I would be grateful for your help in seeing this amendment adopted-- which will involve initiating and promoting action in the legislatures of the several States (and at the grass-roots level), if it is to be effective.

-Pete Hendrickson

That's an EXCELLENT proposal for an Amendment intended to protect and restore the true meaning and intent of the Commerce Clause. The altering of one's own brain/mind, whether by chemicals, or through sonic-vibrational activation of one's own endogenous DMT, or through meditative or other non(external)chemically-induced ways, should be considered a First Amendment issue. It is intuitively obvious that the SPIRIT of the First Amendment is to Protect and Nurture Consciousness and Thought. We need a carefully-worded Amendment to clarify this and to render the effect of enabling competent adults to commercially/privately obtain (or themselves grow or otherwise produce) whatever brain/mind-altering substances they choose so long as they do so responsibly. We could allow for some regulation similar to alchol-&-minors, alcohol-&-driving (or operating other machinery) and to driving itself. Tim Leary & others wanted it handled precisely along the lines the Cary Grant experienced in the other, more recent posting. With proper guides, one can systematically induce brain-change. It seems a First (and Ninth & Tenth) Amendment(s) no-brainer that one **can** fundamentally, meta-Constitutionally, as a fundamental, pre(or meta-) Constitutional natural right, grow & consume one's own marijuana, mushrooms, etc., and that it is simply off-limits of even Union-State, much less the Federal, governments. But then I'm a Constitutionalist, more-or-less classical liberal-individualist, and damn-near anarchist...so there you are...

I do, however, VERY HIGHLY RECOMMEND a visit to Pete Hendrickson's LostHorizons.com. Well worth everyones' attention! And, hey, let's start pushing for Pete's Commerce Clause Amendment...YEAH!

End of rant; gotta go...

Best regards to all; live long & prosper...

MCP2012

AGAINST “LEGALIZATION”
By Hakim Bey

http://www.hermetic.com/bey/legalization.html

Of course they'll never legalize it, because it wouls be impossible for them to tax it.