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Why or why not?
I find this to be one of the most facinating questions, not because of any particular answer one might give, but all the lines of reasonsing one might muster to answer it. Even people who take the safe agnostic position have their own intricate line of reasoning about why to them this question is unanwerable. So what are the challenges or insights that help us tackle this problem? Can it ever be answered? Why or why can't we answer it, and what if anything could we ever know about the nature of consciousness? Is consciousness ultimately beyond the reach of objective science? Can science grow to include subjective experience in such a way that it still remains a valid scientific enterprise? Will the material paradigm have to give way to a more expanded scientific paradigm, in which consciousness itself is a tool in a scientist toolbox? Are out of body experiences (OBE's) just illusions created by the brain, or is consciousness ultimately not limited by a material container? Is consciousness a fundamental component of the universe, perhaps the only thing that really exists? Can rocks or tress be conscious? Is conciousness a strictly material thing, that cannot exist beyond a material container? Is consciousness only something humans have, and/or that requires a minimal amount of complexity to even exist? Is everything consciousness?
**Please go the forums to weigh in on your opinion.
Posted by Bennu at March 12, 2005 01:16 PM"Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/l/ludwigwitt165050.html
"Generally speaking death is not something we look forward to. In fact, many of us greatly fear it. But as Wittgenstein points out, the fact is that you can never actually experience your own death. For at no time when you are alive can you be dead."
http://psjk.homestead.com/Wittgenstein.html
Posted by: Philip Dhingra at March 12, 2005 09:12 PMi am alive in the death of my ancestors.i am part of them,thier memories,thier dna,thier appearance,thier desires.living thier karma?
wittgenstien had a point.we cannot experience being dead,only alive.maybe i am my ancestors experiencing.maybe we are never dead.maybe that`s why it`s so hard to imagine.
if i am alive , i am alive , if i do not exist , whos to know the difference ... therefore i live forever ... i ALWAYS am ... if i am not then ... you see ?
Posted by: craig at March 14, 2005 04:09 PM"We feel and we know that we are eternal." -Spinoza
Posted by: Dark Sorcerer at March 14, 2005 09:33 PM>>Can science grow to include subjective experience in such a way that it still remains a valid scientific enterprise?
I believe that when a critical mass of people who know it (validity of subjectivity) to be true is reached this idea will become a "no (know) brainer".
Posted by: stuart_media at March 15, 2005 07:35 AMall experience is subjective.
Posted by: alistair at March 16, 2005 07:20 PMWell speaking about scientific evaluation of near-death or post death experiences I have read (about a year ago) about an experiment set up in UK hospitals: they have put some written signs-not seen from below-in the upper level of emergency rooms, so if near death tuneling experiences, etc, were in fact happening and related to the material world, some person's at some point of time having a near death experience at that emergency room could read the signs as he started his "journey".
any relevant news?
Posted by: tlon at March 19, 2005 06:43 AMHaving been a guide during the psychedelic 1960's and having experienced "the art of dying" and the "essence of spiritual rebirth" and having monitored many others on the path searching--trying to understand the "realm of the densely packed" or the "bardo where all forms must live and eventually parish" myself and most all others agreed that as Queen Elisabeth (the 1st) I believe said so eloquently "Life is Death".
In circular nature outside of time where all points are the same point and travel is thought experienced as time passing, our lives are reduced or rather compressed for storage as one single experienced linked to the next life and even they are eventually linked similar to the analogy about all points being one point.
All of our incarnations are simultaneously (sp?) occuring and in fact may be the combined memories of just one person that includes all planets, galaxies, all universes, all life forms imcluding your parents, yourself, your offspring, and all of your next lifetime jumps to find your true self (atma swarup in nirvakulpta samadhi -spelling may be off)the one true self experiencing all life in ten thousand forms of existence but not including death--only the temporary veil of illusion and the narrow mind of ignorance would perceive it as death.
The life force which we are all a part of is either the random occurance of chance chemical combinations recklessly out of control and unstoppable till the highest forms of chaos and disorder are acheived and the lowest form or energy completed or it is the one in a billion trillion joyous godhead or true bliss organized by a mind so wonderful and so conscious that it could create, support, maintain trillions and gurjiellions of ascending life forms organic and inorganic for eternity minus a day without their even knowing or ever certain of that mind's existence is mind boggling.
Have we been abandoned or are we watched at every nanosecond and is judgement day the end result or does every moment of what our limited mind perceive as death entail the beginning of oblivion or the begin of endless incarnations until every life form graduates or is reduced to primary elements or sub atomic particles and passes through eventually or is all speculation by a madman answering the cries of another madman and absurdum reductionism truly the answer or there is no answer we are already dead in purgatory talking of the mansion and the room upstairs we will never ever know.
Living in earnest, dying to know, anyone out there have a comment or a criticism.
life is a cycle, u do not remember when&how u were born , and will not know what will happen to u when u die. During ur life cycle as u wonder about the mystery of birth and death,you will realise that every thing in this universe is part of a cycle.So the inference is "ONE DIES NEVER" ,the soul takes different forms of life in different cycles as long as there is "DAY AFTER NIGHT"(Every thing is controlled by so called mother nature).
Posted by: girish at March 25, 2005 01:49 AM